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Thoughts on N4 OSS

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Teslarod, Oct 5, 2020.

  1. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Full disclosure at first glance I thought OSS died with N4 or to put it less dramatic lost some of the key arguments to play them instead of Vanilla. The Apsaras change really did a number on the existing Dakini Fireteam. Playing a few games and getting a better idea about the Meta I'm starting to have some thoughts on OSS performance and benefits

    Defense really really matters now. Getting those Hacking AROs through our REMs is one of the better tools to get some FTF Upgrades. I hate what happened to the Apsaras, Dakini gaining Prone but losing their flex buff and Number 2 is a problem - fortunately that can be solved by Devas.
    Dakini lost their "free BS13" and Stun Ammo for the MSR, but gained the ability to go Prone, which means they seldomly die for good.
    Asura HD+ costs a chunk of points that aren't going to go into a turn 1 Assault or a major Hacking advantage. To break Stealth through Repeaters you still need a Core Link Hacker, a pair KHD and HD Deva is scary ARO and likely has Firewall MODs for everything.

    New Baggage makes the Danavas supremely annoying, again one Core Linked Deva Hacker to cancel Stealth around her Repeaters and then make things miserable.

    Andromeda has pretty wicked punch for her weight class, super short distance though. If you can hide her in a corner where she can't be engaged from outside 8" she is going to be as secure as something without a Marker State can be, S4 gets a bit in the way but thanks to Prone you can make it work.

    It doesn't take many losses to cripple a 15 Order list. Spending your own 15 Orders on Dart, Andromeda, Garuda, Posthumans. Dakini Sniper and Hacking is perfectly capable of dealing heavy damage. Marut and Asura aren't required or optimal imho. WIP15 Hacking, Andromeda's D-Charges in CC and Dart's E/M Nades are capable of killing TAGs, HI Links or other heavy threats easily.

    Counterintelligence is still broken, C+/Superjump are available everywhere, Parachutist (DZ) is available to about 7(?) armies, Impersonation is still there, former LGLs all got some longer 0 ranges and there's a few more E/M ones now which also got free upgrades to E/M2 thanks to N4. Bringing a CoC appears vital to prevent assassination runs by any of those or AD drops. It's very hard to prepare for all the options your opponent might have to jump in your face in N4.

    Aleph TR Bots are more than excellent now, OSS has less use for a Doctor than an Engineer, so that's what the MK1 is gonna do and I'm not complaining.

    EVO looks good at a glance but does absolutely nothing to defend you when going second. That used to be what it was good at and it's a shame. Buffs lasting forever is nice, Baggage is again extremely usful for a Danavas.

    Posthumans give you expendable bodies. While the MK2 lost Hidden Deployment he is still excellent, although I'd probably consider the Sniper more often than the Hacker now. Even if you're just using him to cover your DZ against AD or deploy him to die, someone will have to burn some Orders to get rid of him first. MK2 Sniper and MK4 HI gives you two roadblocks that don't cost you Orders if they die. That's pretty damn rare in N4.

    Netrods are amazing. Veteran and new AD rules, LI so can't be hacked anyway. 10/10 - Max AVA.

    To sum it up the Dakini Sniper ARO is a lot worse than it was, but you can compensate with the massively improved Sixth Sense Hackers and generally boards less cluttered with potential ARO pieces so your midline options can slip through.
    OSS oddly enough still feels pretty damn strong which I wouldn't have expected. Marut and Asura are dead for me though. Both of them add a single point of failure to be exploited by easily available dedicated countermeasures. To make an example everything that makes OSS strong, makes centerpieces like the Marut or Asura miserable. Andromeda, Dart, Hacking, new AD, new E/M.... AP everywhere. OSS doesn't have the tools or points to support a centerpiece, very well, but excells at using a whole array of cheaper specialised and redundant troops to get results. Not to say Asura and Marut are unplayable, but Vanilla looks like a much much better place to toy around with them (after SP gets back).
     
  2. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    While I agree completely when It comes to OSS's strengths being the many elite specialized troops we can litter the midfield with, I do still think the Asura and Marut has their clear advantages in this sectorial. They do things the rest of the list simply do not.

    The Marut is our only long-range MSV unit. And as an absolute tank it's one of the absolute best units in the entire game to pick apart an enemy's ARO configuration turn one. We may not have the smoke that'd set it from a 10/10 to a 11/10 and let it pick things down one at a time with next to no opposition but it makes up for that with the ability to take hits like an absolute champ, with the upside of us having the best engineers in the game to keep it going even if used dangerously aggressively.

    The last game I played the Asura absolutely saved me and secured the win for me in the last turn. While we have too many amazing specialists to count, she's the only one with solid bulk. I was able to run her out into an open space and have several troopers shoot at her while picking up an objective and back into safety only taking a single wound. I agree that we have cheaper options that fulfill similar roles, like Shakti in this case, but the Asura is just so very reliable in what she does.

    I do love that our sectorial focuses more on spreading very competent units all over the field than relying on ramboing with centerpiece models though, always been my favorite way to play Aleph.
     
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  3. Terrenor

    Terrenor Active Member

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    My point for OSS in N4 is the Yadu Linkteam.
    We got a fast, nearly HI linkteam. Which cost as much or more then other HIs. But they a not hackable, they are immun to isolation. So all the scary E/M weapons don't bother them.

    In N3 I didn't play them very often.
    In N4 I think they will get more playtime.

    I can agree with many of your points.
    Asparas are not worth their points.

    The only reason for me to take aleph over OSS is smoke.
     
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  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Apsaras + Total Reaction => ARO greatness ('sides coordinated order to force the remote to ignore some AROs or dodge)
     
  5. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    On the topic of the Apsara, anyone know the reason why it costs 1 SWC in vanilla? Seems like a mistake, especially with REM Racers being available there without that drawback.
     
  6. Bohm Velocity

    Bohm Velocity Ascended Tactbot

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    I don't know if other people don't like them or just don't bring them often, but OSS is one of the sectorials with access to monofilament mines. Since TAGs and HI links might end up on the table more often they could be a pretty useful tool. Combined with repeater coverage you can force some very uncomfortable decisions, especially if you manage to get initiative.
     
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  7. Terrenor

    Terrenor Active Member

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    Sadly repeater coverage is one of oss weakness.
    Only the FO Bots and the rudra got one and only the danavas got a pitcher. I found it not so easy to build a good repeater network.
    I played hacking intensiv in N3 and OSS is strong in hacking but Nomads are much better when it comes to repeater.
    A Naga with deployable repeater would be nice.
    Sure you can't have it all.

    Monomines in the midfield sounds nice. I realy like Nagas especially the minelayer.

    The Kiranbots are strong against HIs and TAG.
     
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  8. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    I'd even go for the ability to link the Danavas, just to get pitchers out a little more efficiently.
     
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  9. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    With Parvati now being a thing, is there really much of a reason to field the Sophotect anymore, except if we really need to save the little bit extra Parvati costs?

    They basically have the same role in the army as a doctor/engineer but Parvati is just better at it.
    The Sophotect is faster but Parvati is a lot more durable and has a better loadout.
    Parvati is hackable which is a pretty big downside, though with 6 BTS and a very good willpower she's got as good a chance of shrugging that off as any.
    And the fact that Parvati is a wildcard makes her something close to an autoinclude in OSS.

    Not much reason to pick our old favorite over the new shiny robo-girl anymore it looks like.
     
  10. Hannibaliafun

    Hannibaliafun Active Member

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    Why is Parvati hackable? She isn't a remote, hacker, HI, or tag. She is LI and just happens to have remote presence. Am I missing something?
     
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  11. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    That's true. I keep forgetting that hackers targets units in the REM category and not just units with Remote Presence. One more point in Parvati's favor, the only thing the Sophotect has got going for her is the 2" extra movement to push buttons with.
     
  12. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    With the move to more heavy models, I see Andromedas infiltrating profile as a first strike HI/Tag killer. If you factor in the New D-Charges I actually think its a little too OP. I posted a thread in the rules section to see if it's legal how I read it. It looks like it's 1 order to kill a HI, and 2 to kill a Tag. Once you take out the big guns the rest of the army should be easier to deal with.
     
  13. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    It's undoubtedly powerful, but she's not the easiest troop to maneuver into such situations, even with infiltration.
     
  14. Vocenoctum

    Vocenoctum Well-Known Member

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    She lacks the "hackable" tag, so yeah she's not hackable.

    It does seem unfair that Parvati gets +2W and +3 engineer, so she's a better doctor than the Sophotect. The sophotect does get the kits and I see as more of a remote/ distance healer, vs Parvati being a more in your face type, but I don't see why it should make Parvati better. I would think the trade off should be more in the combat stats and the stuff like Parvati's super jump and dodge, but I guess they wanted to give her a bit more.
     
  15. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    I'm used to playing haqq, where the goal is to trade up. Exchanging 33 point for a 75-80 point model is good trade. I think OSS is the next faction to take this philosophy. Use andromeda to trade up on big guns, then use Proxies to trade up in regard to order count.
     
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  16. Devil_Tiger

    Devil_Tiger Your Friendly Neighborhood Asura

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    Unfortunately Parvati does get the Medikit and Gizmokit, they're just not listed in the same spot.

    I do agree though, the Sophotect needs something differenciate her from Parvati, for 7 points more you get a model that's much better in pretty much every possible ways. Unless you really must save those points Parvati is just the better choice if you need more than a Mk1.
     
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  17. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    They should make her a doctor/engineer/forward observer/hacker all in one profile. (kidding)
     
  18. Devil_Tiger

    Devil_Tiger Your Friendly Neighborhood Asura

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    Joke aside, something based on the Mother Forge that she's supposed to be hauling around could have been interesting.
    (Mother Forges being basically a hyper advanced piece of kit that is the closest thing Infinity got to a Star Trek Replicator)
     
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  19. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Basically, it's Sophotect who should get more advanced Doc/Engineer skills, while Parvati would be a superior combat piece with basic healing/repairing ability
     
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  20. Vocenoctum

    Vocenoctum Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, see it now.

    It's amusing since the Sophotect has the yudbots and netrods, so you'll be getting the figure most likely anyway...
    The Mother Forge should really have some advantage though. She should get Nanoscreen or regeneration from it if not a bonus to actual skills. It does seem like the Soph should get the actual skill buffs though. Ah well.
     
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