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First Review of N4 profiles, changes and opinions

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Spitfire_TheCat, Sep 26, 2020.

  1. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Played a few games tonight some initial thoughts,

    1. opponents really need to fear the linked Tsyklon if they have anything hackable on the table, it will punt a repeater right into the middle of their stuff and then the real fun begins.

    2. Gromoz is disgusting, with her there is no such thing as an enemy TAGs just TAGs that your opponent paid for for you to play with. This was replicated by the local DBS player doing his thing on the other table, with similar results.

    3. Morans tend to just be ignored and avoided

    4. Multiple KHDs or things with access to trinity are a must otherwise the lone KHD will scalpeled out and you are screwed.

    5. Offensive/active hacking saw consistent results over multiple tables and players

    6. Twin MMR shreds most things you point it at.
     
  2. ldgif

    ldgif Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    So a few thoughts of new Puppetmaster:

    Hacker profile + BSG Puppet can cause some unfavorable situations for hackable targets. Expensive and a little risky though.

    Taking a PM and the RF/Mksmn Puppets and putting them all in SF for 1 token sounds wild. None of them are particularly strong shooters, but multiple SFs isn’t bad in helping TJC survive the alpha strike especially with GrenzerJesus watching over everything.
     
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  3. Zmaj

    Zmaj Active Member

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    I'm kinda disappointed with Prowler (at least in Vanilla):
    *RF Heckler shoots almost like Spitfire Prowler for 15 points and 0.5 SWC less, and RF Sombra shoots almost like him but gets 2 wounds and Climbing+ for the same points; I'm not sure Hidden Deployment will be all that useful.
    *KHD Prowler won't be much of a surprise since our opponents will expect Camo KHD and Repeaters in the midfield, and you could get Mary for same hacking stats and AHD, but without first turn Camo/HD defense for 8 points less
    *Specialis Operative is nice, but we already have bunch of midfield specialists
    *I don't think we'll be doctoring fallen Prowler that far in the midfield much, so Shock Immunity seems just like a bloat

    I'll try them out, but I'd be more happy with old Spitfire Prowler just getting 4-4 move and that 0.5 SWC discount.
     
    dexterv likes this.
  4. Icchan

    Icchan Well-Known Member

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    The downsides of Nomads in N4:
    • Prowler got a small boost, but is still a bit disappointing. Spektr is cheaper and has Mimetism -6 and WIP 14 for hacking. It's always been better to not get hit than to get hit and try to succeed with the saving rolls.
    • Interventors only went down 1 point while other HD+ troops typically went down 2. Their lieutenant option is no longer needed as much since they can't buff REMs anymore and Moderators are 0 SWC.
    • Zondnautica price increase puts it in garbage tier, hopefully it's a bug.
    • Lizard now costs exactly the same as Szalamandra, though slightly cheaper SWC. I'll take the B5 HRMC over B4 Multi HMG any day thanks.
    • Alguaciles don't compare favorably against Moderators anymore, especially with the lt. SWC cost.
    • Securitates are still a bit too expensive for their stats (or rather, Fusiliers are too cheap, they should be 11 pts for the base line Combi profile)
    • Grenzer base profiles still feel expensive. For example the Bolt MSV1 Multi sniper is 4 points less for a very similar statline and skillset. They're only losing 1 point of WIP and ARM and trade Courage for Veteran. No way those stats add up to 4 points. Grenzers have the totally redundant breaker pistols, but that still doesn't explain the difference.
    • Sin-Eater Spitfire really should get a 0.5 SWC discount compared to HMG and Multisniper versions.
    • Wildcats get +2" movement, +2 CC and MSV1 but pay 5 points for these upgrades. Still doesn't make them worthy of consideration, especially when compared to other new Nomad profiles. Spitfire NCO is the only profile that gets a second look since Nomads have a bit of trouble putting their lt. order to good use otherwise. Good combo with Moderator lt.
    • Intruders lost lt. option. It used to be the best protection against first turn HGL lt. assassinations, but since HGL's are no longer a thing, it remains to be seen how bad this really is. Nevertheless, losing options is never a net benefit, even if it's not a negative either.
    • Tsyklon is the only REM to go up in price, very close to the striking range of the new Vostok, which has Mimetism -6 and 2 STR instead of 1. Probably not going to use Tsyklons anymore and they didn't see very much use before either.

    The best changes in Nomads in N4:
    • Moderators, mostly because the 0 SWC lt. I can almost live without a CoC now. The other stuff is a nice bonus too. Though it makes Keisotsus look really weird in comparison.
    • Carlota Kowalsky now has Parachutist (dep. zone), which means opponents will have to be wary of her even if she's not in your list. Just try to obfuscate her presence somehow with other AD troops, HD troops are just taking max 14 troops in your list. And if she is in your list, she seems to carry a hefty toolbox with her to deal some damage to almost any target, as long as their backs are turned and they don't have Sixth Sense.
    • Intruder Shock Marksman Killer Hacker makes running dual Intruders now more viable, though Cheerkillers makes this a bit less desirable. With the increased MI mov speeds, having a specialist Intruder now isn't as dumb as before.
    • Reverend Moiras NCO and Zappers for all profiles actually make them intriguing options, if it weren't for the Vostok with Mimetism -6 with 2 STR. The HMG profile as usual will get the most use, paired with Moderator lt.
    • Cassandra now has Shock Immunity to go with her NWI, along with the MI speed increase and a small price drop. She was already quite effective in N3, now even more so.
    • Gecko switching its combi option for B4 Multi Marksman and +2 DAM is nice. Though their price didn't drop as much other TAGs, they look pretty decent.
    • Meteor Zond 0.5 SWC might now actually make an appearance on the table since Hacking is now more viable.
    • Moran Masai for a brief moment had a Repeater under their 1 use camo marker, but instead we get them as separate options with a hefty price drop. It's a bit shame the camo option doesn't carry any kind of repeaters now though, like Pitchers, Fastpandas or the Deployable version. Still, the camo option is viable thanks to being a specialist.
    • Morlocks with EM CCWs are a lot more scarier than before.
    • Uberfallkommando as well, thanks to it's big price drop and buff to Impetuous rule.
    In short, things that were good in N3 mostly stay good in N4 and things that were bad in N3 still mostly stay bad in N4.
     
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  5. geckoguy

    geckoguy Member

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    I really gotta disagree regarding prowler and zondnautica. Prowler is now a budget daofei with HD, and inherent specialist operative is great cause even the spit can nab, without having to give a hacking vulnerability. Zondnautica is kinda a loser this ed but its still an unhackable bike with good gun, a great gimmick and sheer versatility. Its absolutely still viable to play, not at all garbage tier.
     
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  6. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    To me, Nauticas are still kinda playable, since they are fast, play some roles, and can be deadly with Mates. But still, I understand some points of people who say they've become garbage. Overall, Nomads got certainly good stuffs, but it feels like Nauticas got sacrificed for the sake of internal balance. 24 to 29 costs? That's too heavy.

    They were LIs before but now they're MIs. This might account for the increase, but idk.
     
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  7. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    garbage no, just worse than before, specially compared to other motorcycles, which are usually faster, got cheaper this edition, and are also not hackable. There are changes that seem dificult to understand, this is one of them, and I cannot see a single BS12 non-mimetic MR MSV2 as the reason. Yes, the change from LI to MI seems to be the reason...which is absurd. MI don't bring nothing by itself to justify a points change (is not as if their profile changed because of it)

    prowler got a little better, but they are still a bit too expensive in the first. Please, don't compare them with daofei (better profile, loadout and options, one MI and the other is HI). Daofei is more expensive, of course! is better in all aspects (except for BTS)
     
  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    As mentioned up-thread, that particular one is because the option didn't have the right price in N3, and the Boarding Shotgun itself also went up in cost between editions.
     
  9. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    so the old 24 was an error, that one, ok. Checking the profile, maybe it should have been 26, plus the increase of the BSG it would go to 27... yet it got to 29. But on the other side, spitfire and HD also went up 3 points too, even when the HD got a decrease in cost between editions, that decrease was not taken into account. It makes not much sense, because other motorcycles are going down in points, and zondmate's "cost" remains the same. There has been a points increase in the unit because reasons
     
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  10. Modock

    Modock Well-Known Member

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    Zondnautika is overpriced plain and simple. 29 points for a "naked" boarding shotgun is ridiculous. I suggested and hopped for some additional profiles
    maybe a FO for a fast specialist instead we got available profiles more expensive. Other profiles are not that great either. Also you have to consider that launchers got nerfed.
    IMO not worth the points, there are better options.
     
    #110 Modock, Oct 1, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
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  11. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    There are no other Impetuous smoke throwers in Tunguska so Zondnautica is still necessary
     
  12. Modock

    Modock Well-Known Member

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    Perseus is more reliable smoke thrower.
     
  13. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    Threre is a MASSIVE difference between smoke on green and on red orders
     
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  14. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Kum got cheaper, Dinamo got way cheaper (they became red, ok), 112 (while they went from extreme impetuous to the new normal imptetuous), Mavericks , Kuroshi, Yojimbo, aragoto... all of them cheaper. Ones more than others. Some of them became red orders, some of them were allready red, some were extreme red, yet none went up
     
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  15. Modock

    Modock Well-Known Member

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    Hitting on 12 with the smoke launcher and 10 with the remote ain't that great either.
     
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  16. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    it is not but 0 range for those 12 is up to 24" and free order smoke is free order smoke
     
  17. Modock

    Modock Well-Known Member

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    It looks like Zondnautica dropped in points substantially, this is great news. Now the options are very attractive.

    Spitfire 35 => 30
    Boarding shotgun 29 => 24
    Combi Hacker 34 => 26 :flushed: :smiley:

    Great, a fast and cheap specialist for Tunguska. Nice!
     
    #117 Modock, Oct 5, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
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  18. geckoguy

    geckoguy Member

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    i gotta revisit my all MI vanilla list then, that price drop makes it a lot better
     
  19. wendigo

    wendigo Nomad Artichoke

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    I am very relieved by this. I was ready to retire my ZondNautica with the N4 changes, but I find the price decrease makes it competitive again.
     
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  20. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Whew, what a relief. I didn't want to egg on complaining but that was pissing me off.
     
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