Postmen 2, revealed Swiss missile, revealed Noctfier missile, anything in suppression, especially anything in suppression with mimetism.
Lunah Surprise triangulated smoke: 2 x 10 vs 1 x 3 Lunah triangulated smoke: 2 x 10 vs 1 x 6 Rui shi assisted smoke: 4 x 15 vs 1 x 9 Hsien HMG haris smoke: 5 x 14 vs 1 x 9 I don't think she's the best choice but at least she's a choice when she wasn't before.
Yes, surprise attack is now an obligatory and automatic skill, triangulared fire is still a entire order.
Well I dont have time to read full n4 rulebook, only the things I know for a fact that changed. But this change to surprise is a good one, N4 in general looks mighty good, it is just a shame that some cost changes dont align with other.
There we go, restructured the original post to be an actual change list. Hopefully people will find it readable. I must say, Yu Jing got changed almost exactly like I advocated for the game to be changed in terms of Hackable vs non-Hackable. There are details I'm in less agreement with, for example, I find it's a lot harder to make lists with Rui Shi and Lu Duan now and I find that Yan Huo, as interesting as Bioimmunity makes them, still really doesn't make much sense besides occasionally running the HRMC profile. I think a more radical approach is necessary (see Lunah or Shang-Ji). Equally, Mehmut Crane Armour is very slight sidegrade for a character I must also say that the lack of attention to Sun Tze v1 and Qiang Gao's nerf is making a coffin for those units.
Qiang gao was hanging by a thread, him getting worse while other linkable wildcard HMGs got way better is really poor form. Were Shang Ji actually fixed, or are we blinded by the light of Shang Ji-sus being min maxed with everything under the sun?
I agree, Quing Gao and Sun Tze are the biggest losers in this change. Sun might still be viable in ISS because of the missing NCO and cheap orders.
I think so. There are enough useful Shang-Ji profiles that I think we can think of them as fixed - meaning that just like most multi-profile units about half of the profiles are dead-weight that's only useful for points-optimization.
Gao is confusing as fuck, I can't make heads or tails of why he's costed like he is. Sun Tze is a dead profile in N4 and as a regular user of him it makes me a bit sad. I think they've had their main issue mostly fixed. They're definitely more suitable as a wildcard role model now than just being a shitty expensive Zuyong, I think the change most people are sleeping on is the implications for Dodge. They have Kinematica2 and PH14, that's a very big deal in N4. The total terrain is a nice bonus too. Outside of Shang Ji-sus I think the most interesting profile is the hacker. BTS6 with a -6 Firewall stapled to it is fucking obnoxious to remove with the lethality shift in the hacking game. With Trinity dropping to damage 14 with no ammo type firewall means that they're coming at you with a damage 11 weapon. Think of it being ARM6 and your opponent's only weapon they can kill you with is with a basic pistol. That's aids to deal with. BTS really matters in the N4 hacking game unlike N3 where you needed to be Interventor levels of BTS or Redrum would probably just delete you anyway, and even if you were then you'd just get Skullbustered. The FO profile is pretty good, Tactical Awareness on a specialist is neat. Great duo partner for a Mowang in IA. Paramedic is similar if you can't quite squeeze the FO in. Probably the biggest loser in all of these profiles is the HRL. Even with Tactical Awareness I think this is the profile that's closest to mirroring the old Shang Ji of not quite doing enough to distinguish itself beyond being an overly expensive Zuyong. He needs to be a little bit more premium like paying for a tinbot and +1B on weapons like a Yaogat sniper or something.
Oh hell yeah, the Dodge thing on Shang-Ji today. *chefs kiss* Made me feel like I could traverse a whole table in no amounts of orders.
Personally I'm more interested in it for the tactical application in defense and offense than raw movement. Things like a sneaky skirmisher is trying to run up the side of a building to get shotgun shots/throw mines around the corner on the whole fireteam, the Shang Ji stands a pretty good chance of combat rolling to the corner to stick his Chain Colt in their face and ask them if they wanna try moving forwards again before they get there. Probably the coolest application of the new dodge I've seen was Neko combat rolled out from behind a crate to get in front of a Jotum in suppressive fire. The dodge movement got him past the ARO coverage of units behind the Jotum, and his final position was actually abusing the Jotum itself to block incoming AROs. Next order Neko charged it and the TAG was fucked.
Thanks for compiling this! I had fun annotating it like a modern day Cao cao. In general CC. Many, but not all, characters got higher CC. I will only note when I feel this actually deserves merit. REMs and CC. REMs got better at CC, but less regular compared to old Electric Pulse Firewalls. Firewalls from Tinbots are better, but no longer stack with Fairy Dust and other Firewalls. -A nail for the Rui shi's coffin as there is less reason to take an EVO in Yu Jing, given we have the best tinbots. Light infantry Zhanshi - Gained Dodge +1" Celestial Guard - Gained Dodge +1" - Unlike all other units their Hacking Device did not get 3 points cheaper - Outrageous - Unlike all other units their Multi Sniper did not get 1 point cheaper - A total witch hunt Kuang Shi - Extreme Impetuous has been removed, they are now Impetuous - Lost Biolocator -I'll never forget that one time I almost used biolocator - Did not change in price. - Controller has separate AVA from Celestial Guard -still a bit of a mess, can this dude join a CG link? - ISS: Max 4 Kuang Shi per controller Bao Troops - All profiles have MSV2, BioV, and an innate +3 to Discover - Haris and Duo - Generally got very slightly cheaper - Profiles consolidated, there are now three profiles left -still three more than I'll use I imagine Pheasant - All profiles now have Chain of Command - Generally got slightly cheaper - Stun Grenades removed - Sniper profile removed - Red Fury got Tactical Awareness These guys seem to have gotten a further reduction in CC capacity right, all using para ccws despite prominent swords. Only the red fury profile seems any good, but given how the model turned out I don't see myself using these for yet another edition Zhanying - Gained Dodge +1" - Haris - Generally got cheaper - Bioimmunity changed, can now choose to save on the superior BTS attribute - a great deal! - Nimbus Grenades removed - I liked how the BVR one has his nimbus grenades modelled. But I only ever used them once! - Electric Pulse changed to Para CCW (-6) Zhanshi Gong-Cheng / Yisheng - Gained Dodge +1" Tian Gao - Generally got slightly cheaper - Jammer now disposable (2) Medium infantry Daoying - Hacking Device' area of use altered significantly -Oh how this wounds me and the poor rui shi. Nail number 2. - Lieutenant profiles got a discount of 0,5 SWC - Lieutenant 2 as a skill got more expensive Tiger Soldiers - Generally got slightly more expensive - Terrain (Total) no longer mutually exclusive with Combat Jump - Removed sniper profile - Removed LT profile Ye Mao - Super-Jump nerfed due to removal of falling - MSV improved due to addition of shooting through smoke at a strong penalty Hundun - Generally got very slightly more expensive - Gained Hidden Deployment Heavy infantry Shang-Ji - 6-2 MOV - Generally no change in cost - Gained BS Attack (Shock), Number 2, Dodge +2", Terrain Total - Haris, Duo - Light Flamethrowers changed into Chain-Colts, HMG profiles gained Chain-Colt - Combi Rifles changed into Multi Rifles - HMG profile gained Tinbot Firewall and a Lieutenant double - Gained AP HMG profile with Tactical Awareness and Tinbot Firewall -all hail - Gained Forward Observer with Tactical Awareness Wu Ming - Generally got slightly less expensive - Haris, Duo - Ikari exclusive profiles pissed me off so much, I'm glad they fixed this - Removed Nimbus Grenade Launcher profile - Gained E/M Grenade Launcher on the Grenade Launcher profile -The manifest nightmare of any well laid plan, one of the greatest outliers in the game and Yu Jing profile in most need of a model. Yan Huo - 4-4 MOV - Generally got less expensive - Removed Duo - Gained Bioimmunity - Tinbot (Neurocinetics) changed into regular Neurocinetics - Pistol changed into Heavy Pistol -He's more interesting than before, but not interesting enough. Will be a many games in N4 before I feel like I have time to waste on these Zuyong - 6-2 MOV - Generally got very slightly less expensive - Haris, Duo - Gained Number2 - Profiles with Tinbot reduced SWC cost to 0 - Was hoping for a bigger discount. Haidao - Generally got less expensive - The removal of the 1 per link wildcard limit is huge for these guys in IA. If you are running a Zhanshi + Haidao MSR order farm + turret, you can now insert a Sixth Sense KHD to hack through Jeong's repeater. Su-Jian - 4-4 MOV on combat form. - Generally got less expensive - BS Attack (+1 DAM) in Combat form - Gained +1 B on Heavy Shotgun -Would have rather he got cheaper than these bland buffs. Or add something crazy to mobility form to give some situational uses (eg guard/berserk). Zhencha - Generally no change in cost - Gained Immunity (Shock) - fucking finally - D.E.P. changed into Panzerfaust - sad he missed out on 6-2. Daofei - 6-2 MOV - Generally got slightly less expensive - Gained Dodge +1", Terrain Total - Removed HMG profile - I'm so annoyed by this I might go make a thread about it - Gained D-Charges on all profiles - Gained Hacking Lieutenant profile Hulang - Generally no change in cost - Mimetism (-3) changed into Mimetism (-6) - Removed Duo from the Forward Deployment profiles - Gained CrazyKoalas on Forward Deployment SMG profile - Combi profile needs these, probably even more. - Combi Rifle changed into Multi Rifle on a FTO profile - should have left it as a combi Jujak - 6-2 MOV - Generally got significantly less expensive -The lack of core and haris on these guys in WBA really grinds my fucking gears. Also, their BSGs should be Vulkan Shotguns and they should get immunity (Continuous damage) Liu Xing - 6-2 MOV - Generally no change in cost - Gained a significant amount of CC, Dodge +2", 13 PH, Shock CCW, - Gained higher Combat Jump value - Never felt I had the points to spare for these guys, probably never will. Hac Tao - 6-2 MOV - Generally got significantly less expensive - Removed Boarding Shotgun, Executive Order, and Killer Hacker profiles - Gained HMG profile with NCO - that is so hot. Crane Agent - Generally got significantly less expensive - Got significantly better at CC - Multi Rifle Lieutenant profile now provides 1.5 SWC - I think spitfire LT went down in SWC. - I am sad they didn't get 6-2 but I am very much enamoured with everything else Mowang - Generally got significantly less expensive - Gained a set of non-NCO profiles - Will not get touched -Getting Jeong as a duo buddy will be a big boost for the big wang Hsien - 6-2 MOV - Generally got significantly less expensive - Removed Stealth - Multi Rifle on Tinbot profiles changed into Multi Marksman Rifle - Multi Rifle Lieutenant changed into Lieutenant L2 - Multi Rifle non-Lieutenant gained Specialist Operative and provides 1 SWC even if it isn't a Lieutenant - Multi Marksman Rifle Lieutenant now provides 1 SWC -I love all the hsien changes so much except removed stealth lol. Remotes Chaiyi - One point cheaper - Sniffer removed Husong - One points cheaper - love it Son-Bae - Two points cheaper - Guided Missile Launcher removed - Guided can now be used on the AP+EXP missile as well - Never used, probably still never will Weibing - One point cheaper - Sniffer removed - Sat-lock removed -Things I never used deleted for a points reduction. Good news to me! Long Ya - 4 points cheaper - Minelayer removed - Mimetism (-3) removed - Stealth removed - Shock Mines changed into to AP Mines - Minelayer on a dedicated profile with SMG and at a SWC cost - 2xPanzerfaust changed into Panzerfaust (+1B) and Flammenspeer (+1B) Panggouling - Generally got very slightly cheaper - Baggage now works differently - EVO Hacking Devices is now a dedicated Supportware device, but has no passive army-wide effects - EVO Hacking Device got significantly cheaper Lu Duan - Three points more expensive - Repeater removed - Gained Deployable Repeater, Minelayer, and +1 B on Heavy Flamethrower - MSV improved due to addition of shooting through smoke at a strong penalty - Interested to try! Rui Shi - Three points more expensive - another nail! - Gone from enthusiastic auto include to grudging auto include TAGs Guijia - Seven points cheaper and reduced SWC - Gained 3 CC, Martial Arts L2, Super-Jump - Interesting, maybe I will take it one day. Guijia pilot - Light Flamethrower removed -Trading with TAG pilots was peak silly - Gained SMG, Martial Arts, Courage, and 6 CC Blue Wolf - Eight-teen points cheaper - Akrylate-kanone removed - Gained Berserk (+3), Panzerfaust -Excited to try it Blue Wolf pilot - Light Flamethrower removed - Gained Light Shotgun and 5 CC Warbands Shaolin Monks - Extreme Impetuous has been removed, they are now Impetuous - Gained 1 BS - Removed all 3 profiles with Combi Rifle and Smoke Grenades - Gained profile with Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades, and DA CCW Skirmishers Guilang - Forward Observer profile; Deployable Repeater removed - Minelayer profile; gained Deployable Repeater -And it now has a shotgun! I like having a reason to take a shotgun and not using combi all day every day - Lieutenant profile reduced SWC cost to 1 - MSV improved due to addition of shooting through smoke at a strong penalty Kanren - Three points cheaper - Gained 2 CC - Gained Minelayer profile with Shock Mines at 25 points and 0 SWC - Holoprojector improved due to activation happening in each turn's end step. - Holomask and Holoprojector hackers no longer need to inform opponent if they are hackable when in Hacking Area - I hope to use them more frequently! Ninjas - Removed Shock CCW - Gained CC Attack (Shock) - Multi Sniper profile removed - All Combi Rifles changed into SMG - Gained Forward Observer profie with Combi Rifle and DA CCW - make it an SMG and I'll consider it Characters (Including mercs that "main" Yu Jing) Xi Zhuang - One point more expensive - Gained Dodge +1 and +1 B on Light Flamethrower - wildcard with new mad traps is SO cash. Absolutely will use. Sun Tze v1 - Generally significantly less expensive - Removed Multi Rifle profiles -RIP Sun Tze v2 - No real change in cost - Removed Nanopulsars on Boarding Shotgun profiles -Literally who Chief Cheong - Completely new character - love this guy, can't wait to use him. Which profile is better? Taowu - No real change - Don't see myself ever having points to spare Tai Sheng - 6-2 MOV - Generally got less expensive - Gained Courage - She got proper wildcard too, which pairs well with all Zuyong getting Haris Krit Kokram - 6-2 MOV - Generally got less expensive - Removed Automedikit - Gained NCO - FTO profile's Combi Rifle changed into Multi Rifle (+1 DAM) - Forward Deploying profile had Forward Deployment (+4") changed into Forward Deployment (+8") - Forward Deploying profile Combi Rifle and Chain-colt changed into Heavy Shotgun - Forward Deploying profile gained Deployable Repeater - Excited to try him but he keeps getting switched for Jeong in my lists. Major Lunah - No change in cost - Removed Marksmanship LX - Gained MSV1, BS Attack (+1 DAM), Immunity Shock and Triangulated Fire - SWC stopped me from using her before, with better +1 SWC options in IS I am looking forward to trying Jing Qo - Three poinst cheaper Lei Gong - No real change Adil Mehmut - Three points cheaper - Gained Dodge (+3) - Removed Electric Pulse - Gained Para CCW (-6) Crane Mehmut - Completely new character Liang Kai - Assault changed into Berserk Qiang Gao - Non-Lieutenant two points more expensive - Lieutenant L2 profile six points and 0.5 SWC more expensive - No other alterations. -DEAD TO ME Notable mercenaries (Not including those I don't think had notable alterations) Libertos - Gained Dodge +1" - Minelayer profile got 2 points cheaper Krakot Renegades - Gained Re-roll on Metachemistry - Removed single SMG profile - Red Fury profile gained Heavy Pistol Authorized Bounty Hunters - Generally got very slightly less expensive - Gained Re-roll on Booty - Gained Para CCW (-6) - Greatly increased AVA in vanilla, but not ISS[/
Liu Xing is a reason to put that EVO on the table. Trust me I shit on these guys harder than anyone else in N3, they're going to put more fear into people than any other Yu Jing unit in N4. The Madtrap changes make them a real threat of running up to something expensive and stabbing it with with a mono weapon I think the FO profile has game for Vanilla, got some ideas but they need table time. Should also mention you have the option for BS13 on the Rui Shi and Lu Duan now with the Rem Racer.
Ooops. I got Sun1 and Sun2 changes swapped... @the huanglong I think Sun2 has merit now, while Sun1 has been left behind.
I still run into the same old issue of he's an ARO platform that isn't durable enough to be one when he's also being the LT.
