Dodging+move without any AROs (Stealth loop hole?)

Declaring Dodge will break your Stealth because it is not a Short Movement Skill and All At Once (Page 21)makes it so that order doesn't matter.

ALL AT ONCE
In Infinity N4, Orders and AROs are simultaneous regardless of the Skills declared.​

 

But hilariously you can keep Dodging up to an enemy Trooper and they can't ARO. Or Dodge into a Mine's trigger area and it won't explode.

 

In this situation the mine will explode, as its explosion isn't an ARO

 

A mine won't explode due to dodge movement, but if you're already in the trigger area when you start the dodge I'm pretty sure it goes off.

 

I'd say the way to reconcile the All at Once principle with the wording of Stealth is that in the third bullet point, "second short skill" means "other short skill." i.e. it's the "second" skill in the sense that the Stealth rules just talked about one of the two skills (a short movement skill), and is now talking about the other one. The skill mentioned second in the Stealth rule, not the skill declared chronologically second in the order.

I.e. stealth says "if you declare a short movement skill the enemy can't ARO, except that if your other skill isn't Stealthy then they can ARO normally."

 

I stand corrected.

 

How can this be abused?

 

You're missing the point: Dodge movement does not trigger ARO, dodge Declaration does.

 

This in't a loophole. The other person declares their ARO at the dodge (Picture 3). They can declare Dodge. if they both succeed the active model moves it self first, then the reactive model moves itself (probably leaving engaged).

 

Pretty much none of this position on written vs. intended is going to work for Infinity. Especially if you're trying to claim that 'rules of written' means 'naively reading the rules literally, ignoring all context and principles of the game'.

As much as Corvus Belli is trying to write better rules, they don't write the rules in a way that you can do that.

 

To be blunt, b*llocks. Multiple posters are disagreeing with you on this.

It does, but for other issues. Not for an issue that’s being misunderstood by a single poster.

 

This is very clear cut, when you declare dodge model B will be able to ARO
Or rather, the issue you seem to have is that you say if you declare dodge "first" then move then model B will have no ARO, but your dodge, even though it was declared "first" happens throughout your movement, much like if you were to declare shoot or any other non-movement skill

 

But the original post is incorrect.
Blue does get an ARO in frame 2 because of All at Once.

 

I kind of understand Harddisk idea. Cause It kind of almost makesense if read by rule.

Except like Brother smoke said. Just try switch "Dodge" with "Bs Attack someone else at same place you try to resolve dodge in piceture 3"(But declare bs atk with first action) Then in page 21 order expenditure sequence. After second action declare. there will be second declare ARO.

And if you say that Blue will notice and be able to do ARO to dodge or whatever, Then it's mean he can have ARO when you do "dodging too". But if you say Blue will not notice then if your partner agreed who else to disagree with you right? Just play and have fun.

 

I hate to reignite an old thread but I'm late to this concept and it seem like people have some things wrong here.

The first one I would like to point out is the example that a BS Attack can be used as indiscriminately as the First Short Skill in this example. If everyone goes to the BS Attack page, there are a couple bullet points clear all this up.

1) The first is under Requirements - Be able to draw Line of Fire (LoF) to the target of the BS Attack, unless the BS Weapon, Skill or piece of Equipment used doesn't require LoF." This means you cannot declare a BS Attack until you have gained LoF.

2) The second item I would like to draw attention to are every bullet point aside from the first in the Effects part of BS Attack. The declaration is used religiously.


Now it is not lost on me that many of you would like to focus on the gray box that says Move+BS Attack (or Vice Versa).



However, notice the wording that says a BS Attack can be declared at any point during the route followed by the Move Skill. I bolded these two words to emphasize things that are necessary. First a declaration as already established and the declaration can't be made without first fulfilling the 2nd Bullet Point of the Requirements. And secondly, the route is what's followed in this statement not the Move Skill following the BS Skill declaration. I need to make that clear before anyone tries to get any bright ideas.

Because LoF is required at the moment of Declaration, no one can declare a BS Attack on a model it did not have LoF to by the end of the Declaration of AROs for the First Short Skill. Period.

Which brings me to Dodge, no AROs, Move+Stealth no AROs.

The entry for Stealth is also very specific about declaration. I've boxed in the two bullet points for Effects necessary to get the point across but there are other mentions of declaration in Stealth as well that help emphasize the precedence of declaration when things are happening in the game. Likely all actions in the game are written this, CC Attack is, I know that.

Notice the mentioning of declaration in that 2nd bullet point and notice how the 3rd bullet starts with the word "however" to show that it has a relation and works in tandem with the 2nd. CB seems to have been really specific about placing the word declaration throughout there whole book. They seemed really specific about tying these two bullet points together and specific about the second Short Skill. So people are going to sit here and make up assumptions about the Stealth Rule because of what? It doesn't sit right with them, when so much of the rest of the rules is written exactly the same way. Did it occur to anyone that perhaps the ruling is correct for that handful of troops who can pull off such an engagement. It allows for the kind of engagement as a camo marker. The reactive model is not getting attacked for free. It's just being engaged. The cost of the models to have 3"+ of Dodge, Stealth and 6" MOV was paid the same as camo. It definitely ain't game breaking. So there aint anything to be upset about.

 

ijw already answered the question earlier in this thread.