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N4 Injustices

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Hiereth, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    A TAG pays 1.5 SWC now for Multi HMG at BS 14/15 incl. DAM +1 and TA.

    Compared to "unhackable" Yadu HMG NCO who has to gave 4 more models to reach BS 16 and one free order or two if you buy a 60+ lt lvl 2 that rarely want to share it extra order.

    Even with 6_2 I not see the need for 2 SWC.

    But okay I can live with that I have not played Yadu link so far, they are not painted yet.

    (Not so) funny side note on Yadu her HMG is as tiny as a combi, while modern Aleph BSG are real big beatstiks. A friend of mine misstakes Garuda BSG for HMG because of the size.

    PS Axing Daofei HMG is bad loss for me as I also have the spitfire, both painted :confused:
     
    #21 archon, Oct 1, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
    Hiereth likes this.
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    To put this bluntly, that Yadu profile is very cheap in points for what you get. An estimated 1 or 2 points to avoid being hackable compared to a regular heavy infantry, that's extremely cheap.

    Daoying HMG? You mean Daofei?
     
  3. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

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    Well, now that HellLois has said its not a bug (even tho it totally is) can we add the Celestial Guard Hacker and the Celestial Guard MSR to the list of Knights of Injustice(tm)?

    They're paying 8 points for a hacking device and 8 points for the MSR, while other N4 troops pay 5 and 7
     
  4. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I corrected it.

    For Yadu I don't see her more dangerous as a Zuyong TA HMG. That she is faking fake HI the better way is a thing, but 0,5 SWC? Translated back to N3, that would be 2,5?

    Yes we can. But keep in mind that CG, like Zhanshi now have the incredible ability to dodge 1" more, if they are lucky enough:face_with_rolling_eyes:
     
  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why this irritates me so much, but is that a sign that CB has abandoned the balanced approach and is instead assigning costs according to feel and playtesting?

    (Or put it differently, each faction is at the mercy of their respective playtesters understanding the faction and being equally competent as the other testers; so if Spain's best player is also a playtester and plays Pan-O, then Pan-O will be balanced versus other factions only if the player is more competent than their opposition)
     
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  6. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    ISS has 5 pt regular orders
     
  7. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much the whole Druze Shock Team. Costs somehow went up on them. Instead of lowering costs they just threw in ABH Wildcards.
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    You know that's both a bad faith answer and incorrect.
     
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  9. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    MI speed increase wasn't free, so their costs generally increased across the board, if they didn't lost something to compensate. Shotguns also cost 1 pts more now.

    DBS main issue is still how restricted the sectorial is, and how little options it has compared to other NA2
     
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  10. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

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    Nah, this is just like how Koni said "the Al Fasid not having Shock Immunity is not a bug" then the next day "the al fasid has received Shock Immunity".
     
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  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I hope so. World order restored and all that. It also irks me that it's completely irrational profiles to put ad-hoc price increases on, though part of me sort of hopes there's missing skills involved which for the Sniper could be Mimetism or +1 DAM, but for the Hacker I don't know what.
     
  12. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

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    An Upgrade/ tinbot maybe, but i doubt it.
     
  13. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    It is not, point costs in ISS make more sense when you think how much Kuang Shi offset them
     
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Look;
    1. first and foremost, this is not how CB has scored points in the past 6 years at least. Other than the pre-HSN3 Pheasant.
    2. to focus on these two very specific profiles is completely irrational, there is nothing to be gained or balanced by it, they are the wrong profiles to be meaningful if the Kuang Shi are so strong. These two just don't have much impact on the sectorial's strengths.
    3. Kuang Shi as a play style was heavily nerfed in N4 by going Tactical Window, I think in a few years even you will be surprised to see even 4 of them on the table. Even then, the Kuang Shi as order batteries still come with some pretty distinct limitations - or they will once CB sorts Impetuousness out.
    4. While Kuang Shi are cheap orders, there are bigger savings to be made in a large number of factions by making active use of Frenzy/Impetuous discounts. Yes, the executive unit will be the one carrying the drawback instead of the order batteries, but you'll have the benefit of getting order batteries that wastes more orders taking them out and you can manage the drawbacks in a different way.
     
  15. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    You are wrong because 1) they invite wildcards in now; 2) they guarantee that every ISS list will easily hit 15 no matter how many quality troops they get; 3) they still trade upwards because they are a v good unit.

    Without Kuang Shi the atrocious-in-vacuum price of Crane (50 points for BS13 spitfire) and his paying-for-BTS3 buddies would have never been acceptable before.
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    You haven't looked at what other armies have, yet, have you?
    And yes, the base price for Celestial Guards are a bit on the high side when compared to equivalent units, but mostly checks out.
     
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  17. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

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    He's a nomad player with an axe to grind and a salt mountain to mine, just ignore him.
     
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  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    It was worded a little ambiguously but he actually meant it was missing, as a bug. @ijw confirmed that elsewhere.
     
  19. Kiwi Steve

    Kiwi Steve Well-Known Member

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    From what I've heard on USAriadna/Vanilla Ariadna players, tactical window without reviewing the faction is an injustice. I'm trying to get a mate into the game and he just bought the USA box, so hopefully not as bad as I've heard.

    Yadu getting all the HI benefits while being only a MI.

    Reverend Moiras appear less playable due to still being expensive 1 wound models, which are outclassed by cheaper riot girls.
     
  20. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    So what's up with Mobile Brigada having ARM 5 now?
     
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