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How do we fight links now?

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Natsymir, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    So I just got absolutely curbstomped by a Starmada army with a Hector link and a Zeta TAG. It felt like an uphill battle, I gotta be honest, as they destroyed all my ARO pieces (Daylamis + Tuareg sniper + Hassassin Nadhir) in short order, and there was almost no way to get advantageous F2F rolls against those guys. Nor could I hack them, because the Hector link has a tinbot, nor could I fight them in CC, because Hector would make short work of a Fiday. I did have a shot at taking a few of them out with the Nadhir's flammenspeer, but I missed... In N3, my go-to-strategy would have been to try and get close to those guys with Muttawi'ahs, and then jam them or E/Marat them. But that won't work now, because the Mutts have been nerfed back to the stone age.

    Except for the Nadhir, who is an obvious budget Noctifer, and will likely have to be in every single list now because I have to face link teams all the time (>_<), what tools and strategies do we have to deal with links in N4?
     
  2. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    It's always a little tricky to give specific advice when a game can be so varied based on things like terrain and the real specifics of lists, but based on what you've described I would have gone hard after the Zeta and then used it to attack the link. Hector might give his link a light firewall but the Zeta is amongst the most susceptible to hacking TAGs in the game. Get a pitcher up next to it and and force the F2F rolls through.

    Otherwise, very cheap camo shotguns trade very efficiently into links if you can send them in up close. Sixth sense doesn't let you hold ARO any more so you can round a corner against a link and they have to decide there and then to shoot or dodge.
     
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  3. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    What was that fireteam? Nyokas + Hector + PSI Cop MSV1 or something like that? With the Zeta that puts them around 240 points already, so there couldn't have been much else in their list, right?

    I guess the old way is still the right way: Throw shit at them until something sticks, but opt for direct templates if you know you can't contest their dice. Once their fireteam is broken, your chances will increase significantly. If you bring the Fiday, go for the weaker members and not Hector. Consider the mine loadout to force bad decisions on your opponent.

    Kum Chain Rifles are 5 points now, Zuleyka brings two flamer templates for 11 points, Mutts with E/Marat are still 5 points. Some of that will eventually kill/isolate something.

    Ragik BSG can get into position with combat jump + stealth to line up two templates nowadays.
     
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  4. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    His list was:

    Zeta NCO
    Hector (spitfire) + Kappa missile launcher + Kappa combi-rifle + Psi-cop killer hacker + Bluecoat adhesive launcher
    Katherine Cho lieutenant (masked as a Bronze, which fooled me for the entire game because I had never faced Starmada before)
    Epsilon with multi-sniper
    Parvati
    Kyttä

    So yeah, it was small... RobertShepherd is probably right, I should've tried to possess the TAG... gotta bring more repeaters next time. The Kum is something I should try as well.
     
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  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Also worth noting that Hector can only join a link of Nyokas or Betatroopers.
     
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  6. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Iirc, Hector can only link with Betatroopers/Nyokas. You should check up on that before your next match.

    EDIT: Ninja'd
     
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  7. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    oh...so my opponent cheated accidentally :D my defeat suddenly doesn't feel as bitter...
     
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  8. Rhys

    Rhys Active Member

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    Theres also the option to outrange it with something like the Lasiq VSR.
     
  9. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

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    Do you like the Nadhir? i couldn't try it already, but disposable(2) doesn't seem so good... 2 shoots and he can't do shit unless he resupply... that brings me down a little
     
  10. SpectralOwl

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    2 shots is all you need for a good TO trap; one to catch an enemy link or power unit in the open, another to chase them while they flee. If either of those shots did the job you've made back your points and seriously inconvenienced the opponent. Even after that, you can reload at a Baggage bot or run off into the midfield to do Specialist things or chase off Skirmishers with a Burst 3 Mimetism(-6) gunner.
     
  11. Sojourne

    Sojourne Irregular

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    Well the noctifier doesn’t usually get more than a couple shots off anyway before it dies to a big gun.

    anyway the nadhir can still do FO things after he expends the flammenspeers and somehow still survives the counterattack so that’s great. For 24 points!
     
  12. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

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    I play Onyx too, and i expect my Noctifier to shoot more than 2 times... but for 24pts maybe i can lower my expectations
     
  13. vorthain

    vorthain Veteran Novice

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    I'm excited for the Nadhir more than the Shujae, I think. Hidden flammenspeer FO seems so good, and SMG is nothing to sneeze at either.
     
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  14. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, I'm also very happy for him - he's the most interesting of the new units for me :) 0 SWC for template weapon shooting from hidden deployment? On a 24pts specialist? In an army that can quite easily hide his existence? What not to love? :D He'll make my aggressive ARO even more aggressive ;)

    The only thing I'd add would be the Flash Pulse, sadly he's one of the few FO in Haqq that doesn't have this. But still, even if he shoots both Flamenspeer projectiles, he has his Forward Observer - which can be used in ARO, works as FtF IIRC and can help his survive longer in ARO, and also help other guys hit what he Targeted ;)


    About fighting against fireteams - it always wasn't easy, but I think now will be a bit easier. They lost the option to wait for the second skill to choose ARO and that's a big thing. You can attack a Fireteam using one of our many skirmishers (Farzan, Hawwa, Fiday, even lucky Daylami) and let them decide, what to do - dodge or shoot?
    You can even ride with Zuleyka up close and burn or shot them to death, depending on their ARO. That is the beauty of some of ours units, they have the right answer for every ARO :)

    I remember when playing Zuleyka against Steel Phalanx in N3 how she burnt one guy out of Fireteam, but the Myrmidons just waited for my second skill. Now it won't be that easy for them.
    Ha ha! ;)


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
  15. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    I'll second the suggestion of Fidays with mines. It's easily my favorite loadout for the profile and one of my go to option for "castle" style links that like to sit in the DZ. For aggressive links that like to run up the table, Ghazi and Daylami were my disposable weapons of choice. Sure we don't have the absurdly broken versatility of having smoke and emarats and jammers on a 5 point profile like we did in N3, but they're still good, we just need to be more thoughtful with profile selection and usage. Both emarats and jammers in the right place at the right time can disrupt a link and make it easier to pick apart or shut down its aggressive momentum.
     
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  16. grampyseer

    grampyseer User of the "ignore" button
    Warcor

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    I think e marats and jammers are still viable link busters, but you're going to need to much more deliberate in how you set up your Mutt profiles.
     
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  17. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    So today I got massacred by Starmada. They had a Zeta TAG, and a link with 2 Nyokas with Rocket launchers, Hector, Parvati, and Shona Carano. The Nyokas were placed on a roof overlooking almost the entire game board, and the Zeta and Hector blocked my Fiday so I couldn't get to them. Parvati was prone on the roof, and though I spent my entire turn trying to shoot the Nyokas down one by one with an Asawira, they just fell unconscious, and the next turn, Parvati crawled over to them and got them back up again. I tried shooting them from hidden deployment with a Nadir, but of course they tanked his flammenspeer. Parvati took one wound, and then tanked the second... The Zeta then made short work of my Nadir.

    I know you're not supposed to take on links head-on, but with some defensive links like that, you basically have no other option. What tools do we have that can win FtF against rocket launchers and missile launchers in links? That's not the only problem however, because even if get things like Nyokas unconscious (Nyokas have shock immunity), Parvati will just heal them back up, and there's often no way I can get to her when she's prone behind a ledge. Is there anything in all of Haqq that's not the Maghariba guard that stand a decent chance of winning FtF rolls against a link team member, and dealing two wounds so that he actually dies?

    The best I can come up with is the Lasiq sniper. She can try to outrange the link from unexpected angles, and is somewhat protected by her Mimetism-3, and stands a decent chance of killing stuff with her viral shots at DAM 15-16. It won't work against missile launchers, she can't outrange those, but rocket launchers are possible. I guess Hassassin Shujae could work too, IF we get first turn, but then you really, really have to get within 16" of the link, and that won't be easy.
     
    #17 Natsymir, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  18. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    @Natsymir that’s the main reason I don’t like strong defensive links. Games where it feels like a coin toss whether I get to break out of my DZ or not just aren’t fun to me.

    Lasiq sniper does sound like it would have been useful in that scenario, and is versatile in a number of matchups.
     
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  19. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but it was partly the scenarios fault, too. We played Frostbyte, which greatly favors long-ranged firepower. Exclusion zones mean our infiltrators, which are plentiful, are crippled, and can't get those favorable range bands to the link that they might otherwise have been able to. I'm not a big fan of exclusion zones because it feels they lock down quite a major part of the game, and favor fire teams over vanilla.

    But I'll definitely try the Lasiq out more now, yes.
     
  20. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    Consider Knauf for the B3 DA MSR to pick up weak link fillers and ARO pieces.

    On a different note, I do believe there should be no position for a core link in a deployment zone to cover almost the whole board. Get some LOS blockers in there, avoid high buildings in the dz and break up long firelanes. Otherwise core links tend to become too oppressive.

    That being said, Nyokas surviving that AP Spitfire and Flammenspeer without ever losing two wounds at a time is quite bad luck.
     
    #20 Knauf, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
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