Alright Nomad players, is anyone actually using Tsyklons in the face of the new Vostoks? Additionally, why does the Lunokhod have a shotgun and flamethrower? That profile could probably do with a change. In all seriousness, I used to really like both units, but now find it hard to justify them compared to a lot of our other options. The Vostok is obviously the better choice for gunfighting remote, Morans got better and cheaper and kind of take over from the Lunokhod. Has anyone had any luck with them? Are you finding they have a spot in your list?
tsyklons bring WAY more versatility as a unit (especially as a suppression peice), though i do think its a bit outclassed by vostok. Still, it carrying pitchers is a pretty useful bonus, and where it can link it carries a pretty good ARO benefit. Plus it can FD in Tunguska which is nice. Lunokhod are still lunokhod. Moran don't carry the same kind of firepower, and aren't as useful In a DZ defense role like luno are. also, lunokhod are available in every sectorial, unlike moran.
You may be right. I'm coming at it as primarily a CJC player where midfield koala drops are already taken care of, and I don't really use Lunos for DZ defense as much due to that. The active turn face stomping ability of a Vostok in a link is just mind numbing compared to the Tsyklon with much lower risk and the ability to take an ARO hit if necessary. Pitchers are a valid reason to use them, but I don't usually deploy more pitchers than Jazz is already hauling around in a link.
The tsyklon price increase was unwarranted considering they can't be buffed as easily and the vostok exists. It'll be a pretty hard decision to take one going forward
Honestly, i would have loved to see tsyklon also get a second wound, and with their pitchers be a nomad-y version of a rudra and its mine dispensers. i think that would have been neat, if a bit ridiculous
Rather less STR2 and more some other gimick is what's needed. Pitchers are covered by Jazz and Valerya already. X-Visor and 360 Visor are mostly a waste of points on a linkable unit and only really benefit the Feuerbach. I'd say Tactical Awareness, so you can put the unlinked Spitfire into SF, or take an extra shot with the FB in a link. The HFT on the Luno is still relevant since shotguns can't Intuitive Attack - plus, they crit now. But HFTs shouldn't cost what they do since they no longer have their great anti-camo function.
As a TJC player I have taken the Lunokhod quite a bit, but that was in N3. It was stellar for DZ defense and midfield attack runs where the target was forced to chose between dodge or eating a HFT template. It may still be be able to do this, but between the changes to Perimeter Weapons, the Shotgun change, and the cost increase; I'm not sure I will be using it anymore. It's still almost reasonably priced, but that cost increase just feels bad when it effectively got nerfed in a couple of ways. In TJC it is stupidly one of only two profiles that carry d-charges. Since it's faster than the Clockmaker, if a scenario needs d-charges I guess it's still on the menu. Also it's one of only two profiles with a HFT in the faction too, and that can be useful.
I’m not massively happy with the price increases, but this I disagree with. 360° Visor means that you simply don’t have to worry about facing, and it’s literally impossible for someone to sneak up behind you. Sixth Sense from a Fireteam is only going to kick if you’re attacked, it won’t stop someone simply walking up out of your front arc. X-Visor matters for Pitchers (in a full Core you’re on BS12 at the full 40” range. It also matters for the Spitfire as it makes shooting beyond 24” much more viable.
It's too bad you can't Duo Lunokhods and Geckos, that would be an interesting combo of units to run up the table and save some orders.
I would love it if CJC gets to link Lunokhods. I always like the Lunokhod and used it exhaustively. It's just a great fast and flexible attack and defense piece and the lower pointcost makes if much easier to fit in. The Tsyklon on the other hand is in a category comparable to the Vostok. One is not strictly better than the other but for the role I'm looking for with my REM the Vostok tends to take the cake most of the time. Whenever I go fo the Tsyklon it's for defensive purposes or sheer utility.
Yeah I think the price hike is a bit rough given everything else - but the linked Tsyk Feuerbach still feels like it has a place to me, at least at the right price point. Have to play a bit to see if the price it's at still works. The x-visor + pitcher was already pretty cool, maybe moreso now. Putting 2 pitchers out to 24' on 15s can be game changing. Plus the Feuerbach (+x visor) range bands are lot better than the Mk12 on the Vostok in both early attack and ARO. Plus the biggest problem with it as an ARO piece (doesn't prone when unconscious) has been fixed and that could be a big deal too. The Vostok seems really strong, but the short range gun and the fact people can apply MSV to weaken it if you need it to defend do appear to handbrake it a little for me.
Hmm.. At the first glance, Vostoks seem way OP since they've got Optical gears, and 3/6/2. But yes, they are somewhat not that top tiered regarding long ranged weaponry, and the combination of x-visors and spitfire/pitcher seems quite exclusive. Might try Tsyklons out next time! Thank you all for this fruitful discussion.
Also, unless something changed the 0 on minimum range on the Feuerbach is something that came up for me a lot when linked. And yeah it's amazing on the pitcher. I found both visors to be regularly useful. 360 visors, especially on an aggressive fireteam, are one of my biggest weaknesses. I hate/love that damn Santiago.
Lunokhod might need a change in their loadout, just a litle check but tsyklons... I love them, but they were allready expensive in n3 (the most cost/effect of all gen2 remotes). There were remotes 10 point cheaper more effective in the same field of "active shotty remote" to the point that TR bots were better because of costs. Tsyklons are better equiped than vostok though, and I think they can run by themselves better against lone oponents. The problem is that they are still expensive remotes. because arm and 360 visor are more costly than what they offer to them
X-Visors seem to be 3pts (based on Intruder) and 360 Visors also seem to have retained their high cost (if Krizas are anything to go by). So between that and the CC hike and Para CCW I can why they've increased in cost. The problem is that - while stellar in a link - those things aren't great on their own. Which pretty much relegates Tsyklons to being Fuerbach turrets. I can see that use at least, particularly in CJC/BJC where you can add Engineers to the link as well. What I don't understand are Lunokhods. What drove their price increases?
The adjustment to Shotguns, I'd wager. Probably tacked on 2 points. And to be perfectly honest, it's entirely fair on a platform that can chuck 2 DAM14 templates after freezing something with its Repeater, and then having Crazy Koalas jump in on the action. Heavy Flamethrower... ehhh, their use is very meta and rules dependent. It used to be very valuable for the camo destruction. Now that I can't burn off the Avatar's ODD... *looks at the Intruders* "We knew we'd call for us eventually, senhor."
I always loved the Tsyklon, and thought about getting it in my N4 lists anyway (I do believe the Feuerbach gives us a different profile than Vostoks)... but then EVAders happened as a Wildcard. There is very little reason to take the fat-ass base Tsyklon over an EVAder, no matter how much it pains me.
*Looks a Morans* Yup, I can certainly see why the Shotgun + Koala changes would see the price increase on a platform that can leverage Carbonite into B2 AP with Koala support. /jk Lunokhods are 8-10pts more than Morans... are they really worth it?
