I’m pretty sure Papa Bey wasn’t suggesting that, but instead to actively point out to the opponent ‘I’ve got 17 Troopers visible, have fun burning Orders to work out who’s real’.
Thanks for the sportsmanship comment. Since 17 models is by definition, illegal, holoprojectors must be in use and now they get to play whack a mole.
Given for the literal exact same cost you could have the exact same daylami in the exact same positions but under camo markers, I question your rationale unless you're very specifically trying to lend credibility to an Ayyar fakeout, or just a stubborn contrarian.
Inferior Infiltration daylami don't exist any more. You now have the choice between paying 6pts for a daylami who deploys anywhere in your deployment zone out of camo, or also 6pts for a daylami who deploys anywhere inside or outside your deployment zone up to the halfway line without a roll, and is also under a camo marker. Choosing to take a 6pt non-camo daylami is literally choosing the worse of two otherwise identical profiles for no reason - except, very possibly, as a fourth model as part of an Ayyar fakeout.
For clarity, and to complete the three posts back to back trifecta - I don't think Daylami are bad. I think 6pt camo daylami that can infiltrate are very good. So good, that choosing to give those attributes up for no reason to take a non-infiltrating daylami is giving up what is now one of the major(ish) strengths of Bayram and vanilla Haqq.
Even then, you'd still take the camo/infiltrating version. You'd just choose to deploy him without his marker state. The Ayyar would fake 3 versions of the camo/infiltrating Daylami outside marker state also. Your opponent's not going to be fooled either way, and taking the dud profile wouldn't make it any less clear what was going on. I mean, I agree with you, I would never actually choose to give up marker state to pull this trick. In my assessment, the advantage of having real Daylamis in marker state far outweighs the advantage of having them interspersed with fake Daylamis. Then again, some players choose to deploy Helots in Decoy state instead of Camo state... so it's not inconceivable that those players might also prefer decoy Daylamis over camouflaged Daylamis, I guess.
While Daylamis are awesome (and got better with the new army update that removes their infiltration mod), I had a question: Since Camo now has no inherent mods and you implicitly have to state your mimitism mod mod on the marker, you can't do a camo shell game with Daylamis anymore, right? One will know that its a Daylami under that non-mimitism camo token. For 6 points, they are still worth it, but I just wanted to confirm.
Correct, they'll be a Camouflage Marker with no penalty on it, as opposed to a Camouflage -3 or Camouflage -6, I think the Kaldstrøm token/scenery pack actually has a couple but I'm at work and can't check right now.
Mines still have a mimetism -3 modifier, so no shell games with Daylami. Then again, you're still forcing your opponent to waste orders on them, so that's a win!
the deal in the profile was missions like armory, ayyar can take the place all alone, but now Asawira linkable with anything can do it better and cheaper that not happen in N3
Well you need to run 3 irregulars man to do the trick so... if you play 13 o 15 regular your opponent will see the trick and you pay 40 points for that just a waste.
There's no sense about that 6 points for 1 daylami and 6 points for 1 daylami anywhere. Is this a joke??
Just discovered that the new Army builder doesn't include Courtesy Lists for some reason, but that you can work around that and write an illegal 17 model list to hand to your opponent if you want to disclose you're running Holoechoes. (Now don't get me wrong I understand that Impersonators, HD and AD will all still help you play shell games with your Courtesy List, but in N4 I think it's going to be very rare to be able to set aside actual troop slots for decoys; I'm already seeing posts from folks on FB lamenting on how the lists they're writing are leaving 3 to 6 points unspent, which they normally would have used for a 16th Warcor or Warband in N3.) So how to make this work for you? (Or more precisely, me.) There's no way in the world I would deploy an Ayyar as a PF Daylami without the Camo option, because I see no logical reason to deploy a real PF Daylami that way; giving up the benefits of one time Camo to "scare" your opponent - "look at me, look at me, I have a PF!" - strikes me as a very poor trade off. To me, that would be as good as telling your opponent "Yeah, these three dopey Daylami here are the Ayyar I've already been forced to reveal to you in my Courtesy List" - at which point you might as well deploy the Ayyar's Holoechoes, and use Mask to switch up his loadout if all you want to do is play "whack a mole." Much better I think would be to hand your opponent a Courtesy List that includes say four identical Lasiqs; when your opponent sees them on the table he'll probably guess three of them are an Ayyar and two Masked Echoes, but be left guessing as to which one is the real Lasiq, which one is the real Ayyar and what the Ayyar's loadout really is - not quite like the mind games possible in N3, but still better than whack a mole. I like the Ayyar and will still continue using him (and my IS Kanren) in N4. And I definitely agree the new way Holoechoes regenerate is a global buff to troops like them. But I also think the 15 model cap is a small but not insignificant stealth debuff to the utility of Holoechoes. Does all that (along with the other changes to the Ayyar) justify him going up by a point, while the cost of most other HI has gone down in N4? Beats me, I guess I'll find out on the tabletop. Cheers!
I think holo echoes will be one of the best ways for us to clear mines and perimeter weapons. I think if I use an Ayyar, i will pair him with a Bashi to increase the deployment mind games.
Frankly, if anything I'd probably just hide him as a ghulam and use him for last turn objective grabbing, especially against armies that favor warbands and mines.
You know what, i actually missed that. I was thinking about most of my n3 hb lists. But id take a mix so i can holo fake out and mine/infiltrator/daylami fake out
Courtesy lists are on the way in a future update, it’s listed in a blog post somewhere on the main site.
I think that the new N4 rules 15 model cap are destroying factions like ariadna and haqqislam that got so many irregular troops. Now if you start haqqisalm you don't need to buy muttawia box it's just a haste of money, hunzakuts (very good unit) and hassassin starter too. The point is that 1 or 2 irregular orders in N4 are a risk because you will take 15 regular order for your fiday or core/haris wasting orders for moving a muttawia or hunzakuts may cost you the game. In my conclusion they need to change irregular orders for regular there's no point to stay irregular. Or maybe give us a similar Jeanne d'arc Skill
