The Bolt and Zhayedan don't have MSV so you can at least smoke past or use Mimetism to even the odds, the Snenzer Griper is really tasty.
If Sixth Sense works like I suspect: the target AROs an attack back through smoke and the -6 to shooting through smoke is then ignored; then I think the MM Grenz may just be setting the linked reactive unit bar pretty high.
Forgot that one! Both are going to be pretty nasty, though a lot depends on Fireteam options. Grenzers being Wildcard is pretty awesome, puts them nearly to the level of Kamau MSR!
I feel like the Bolt one will be much more expensive to field overall than the Grenzer in TJC, but definitely not less effective.
I can’t believe we are finally getting a Grenzer ML, only to get put on the shelf by the Grenzer Sniper. Also, has anyone seen a deliberate ruling on how MSV1 and Sixth Sense work together in ARO? Pretty important ruling question for the Grenzer MSR.
Last time I checked the Grenzer wasn't in CJC, neither of them really make it in to vanllia anyway so its kind of a moot point. also comparing the two purely because they both have MSV 1 is lazy at best there are other factors to take into account, such as Grenzers having shock immunity making them more likely to stick around so you can get them back up, different weapon options one has a HRL and the other has a MSR both of which are different and provide different ways to solve a problem or role. Only linkable MSV aside, the WC does provide other uses in CJC, a relatively cheap SWC less LT, and a dirt cheap HRL are up there and the hackers and engi are useful option to have access to. Theyre the unit that gets thrown in to fill a specific slot or role as opposed to something you take 3-5 of and call it a day. They also got their CC bumped to 18 and picked up a para -6 CCW, so they speculo that tries to blender the fire team under smoke is in for a bad time. Also having them follow a RG around to mob something like glorified tazer wielding pupniks is hilarious. BTS 6 HD KHD with camo and infiltration is probably really good, also if my experience against CA and Tohaa is anything to go off of a HD spitfire can and does ruin your day. They have other applications out side of being a body with a jammer (which once it revealed itself was either ignored and avoided or quickly killed so disposable means nothing). The RF is a great secondary or tertiary assault piece to hit from an unpredictable angle, the KHD is always cheap and useful as a suicide hacker, and the hacking threat the jammer profile can project with the crazy koala is insane. They havent really changed at all from what they were previously and are as good as they've ever been and you will likely still be taking a pair of them. Loose core in favour of pure wildcard, nothing but an upgrade there, Shock immunity helps them a lot, I doubt people will leave home with out the sniper for a fireteam, FO with NCO is a nice tool box option to add in to a fireteam. like the WC being in vanilla was a rarity anyway and they are something that gets thrown in as a one or two of to solve a problem. Also you wanted MSV in TJC to stop a warband rush, well here it is. Nope, Hard ARO in vanilla is a waste of a good order and a waste of points and SWC, people are used to dealing with link MSV2 snipers, what ever works against them will brutally paste an unlinked MSV1 sniper
They also get disconnected when the spearhead dies, and you need to spend an order to reconnect them afterwards, apparently. Since in N3 the leader jumped to one of the puppets left alive automatically, that's a significant nerf, I think.
Don't start it standing up for ARO. Leave it standing only later in the game, or if you're up against someone who thinks SWC is illegal. I've been using the very similar Bolt Sniper a little, it's a good active choice for taking down stuff that relies on heavily stacked MODs like an Intruder or Epsilon with nearby Smoke and it gets even odds against a linked Kamau Sniper in active- better than the Kriza now he's using Mimetism. Generally I'd consider it worse than an Intruder with Smoke handy, but it is a fair bit cheaper and less order-intensive than that combination.
I will do all I did in previous editions, try everything I can. But one single profile cannot change what an entire troop is. of course it will. Even without markmanship. Intruder got more than nises (even after being linked). Wildcats got more even after wildcats got better and cheaper... any nomad unit will get more hate than any "equivalent" pano unit, allways. This is how it works (has happened since N0, I don't know why after so many years of pano being ahead in results this will change) seems to me that too, just an army error. What I meant, is in two ways. It stole the spot in vainilla. Maybe I should rephrase it as it "copied the role" in CJC from TJC. But yes, none of them made it to vainilla, and I am sure none of them will make it now, with some exceptions (I will try them for sure). The comparative is not only because of the MSV, but also stats, and most options. Yes, they have some differences... but their role is basically the same, with just the difference between engineer and sensor to make them really stand one from another they got their "para" weapon allready, they always had that (well, I think it was initially translated to para -3). Having a RG with them is nice and so... that is a change that other basic LI had in n3 and they should have had too, just got it too late. prowlers allways have been "looking good", but didn't work as well as they looked on paper. We will see if their point increase justifiy their extra rules when in other places, good units are getting discounts and extra rules. I agree with that, they have other uses. Maybe the changes to MSV and the CK will reduce the need for that kind of defense. But also remember that TJC has almost no midfield defense (no minelayers, only TO infiltrators). Yes, hecklers have other uses, and they haven't changed in that. We will see. I have to admit that I didn't see the NCO profile (and I looked several times, not sure if it updated later, as with the FTP perseus or what). The problem there is that, an expensive option that was allready oudated thanks to the inclusion of helena, got more expensive, in a allready expensive faction. Will that be used? maybe. Same with the markmanship sniper. In here I foresee happening the same I say with prowler. An expensive and not so good unit gets a little extra rules making it more expensive, while other units that are good, get cheaper and with extra rules. We will see. Yes, and that is good. But the problem is the other I keep telling: no point check. ARM was supposed to get cheaper, which would make some MI and certain remotes more affordable, not only HI and TAG (was something CB said at the beggining, appart that all MI would have a deeper look into, but they didn't say exactly in those words of course). But in the end, they only changed points for HI/TAGs, and some few MI got extra rules, I don't have the feeling of the "deep check" they announced to do. For us nomads, a lot of extra-but-pay-for rules while, as I said, others get new rules and get cheaper. And when all other factions are getting, at least, the same treatment (or got half of it before, because in fireteams, we had ones of the most stritct ones), this will mean that TJC will remain almost the same in the end. Something went up (kriza burst, which I think will be nerfed in a near future, raoul mimetism, pupetmasters seems it can ARO, interventors went to secs ft because there is no grenz ft anymore), something went down (zondnaut gets more expensive because potato. Hecklers got the jammer nerf with nothing more to check. Perseus fireteam options are still non-jumping, which makes it not useful for a hollow ft, just a forced option for ft shaneningans) and some others remained almost the same or did a sidestep (grenzer options got a bit better, but more expensive, so the new "top option" will have numbers similar to certain other linked snipers, but more expensive). A mid-tier sectorial that will remain mid-tier is my guess in this, because other sectorials got a bigger shake. I still see them, and I updated it twice, but I still cannot see the zondnaut SGL, so... just wait a few days to confirm the real status but the master can aro normally, can't him? that is a big bust, so in the end... a sidestep?
the bolt is cheaper for almost the same performance... and we have not much other options in vainilla. 4 points because 1 arm and the breaker pistol seems a lot to me. In vainilla nomads, there are better choices in my opinion. For 23 points there is the wildcat HRL. 12 points of difference is a lot, will die and be useful mostly against the same options, there are a few thougher enemies that the grenzer MMSR will be better, but I think the point difference make for it
I dunno. On one hand - the single failure point of the unit got stronger, on the other - controller is still a baseline LI with no good ARO options, and the main combat force of a unit took a significant hit (and also got a bit costlier). To me, this is a net loss. That said, I did like the N3 puppets A LOT, so maybe I'm just salty and inflexible. Courage might be more important for an ARO piece than Veteran.
N3 Puppetactica were waaaaay too good for their points, given how good Nomads are at protecting their DZ, and therefore covering the one weakness.
N3 puppetactica was overstimated a lot, it was really easy to take out, and a suicidal trade was most of the time in favor of the attacker. Maybe in vainilla it was easy to deffend them, but in TJC it was far from it, just a lot of people didn't try (or just didn't want to) and complained
Completely agree, in vanilla maybe but not in Tunguska. We know how shitty ARO game (defense) was in Tunguska.
