Just adding to the discussion - the Gecko's didn't just get multi access, they got a bunch of pretty interesting stuff: They're BS Attack +2 DAM now, rather than the standard +1 for TAGs. They are now 6-2 MOV and ARM 6. Tiny nerf in PH 14 (-1 from N3), but still dodge better in N4 on 11s instead of 15 - 6 = 9s in N3. Chain colts upgraded to Chain Rifles. Multi marksman rifles have way better range bands than combis, and combined with DAM+2 and +1B, is basically a Multi-Spitfire. The Gecko Pilot got a Combi on top of his Burst 5 Assault Pistol. Even with all those additions, the Mk12 option is 51/0.5 instead of 58/0.5. The dual combis got upgraded to dual multi marksmen rifles, and went from 57/0 to 56/1. Geckos are gonna hit pretty damn hard now, both profiles have manageable range bands, and they're even hardier than before. I can't wait to try them out on the table.
Then there's no confusion, Healers can't join Custodier. Bad move imo, they should freely link with each other as a sub-sub-faction. edit: Yes you can form Moira Haris, in some fashion. Oh I've noticed. You better bet I noticed. 1 SWC for a 15 DAM MultiSpitfire is stupid good. My last game of N3 I had a Combis Gecko fail to wound a Jotums on many attempts, this would have been a different story. It'll tear things apart. MK12 is nice and cheap and has a very deadly suppressive fire. Good to mix Duo with another gunner such as the EVA Spitfire or that new REM. Both viable imo. I find the profiles to be better balanced as options against eachother now; before the MK12 cost more points/SWC and was only better suppressive or with range considered. Now there's a clearer cut between paying for firepower or saving when you know it's for specialist/area holding. I would have liked courage, but I must resist asking for more and more.
I don’t know if it’s deliberate, but the wording is clear - they can be part of a Moira Fireteam and that’s all. Note that the Fireteam rules specify that you need at least one of the original team when adding other units, so a Moira would be required. Please, always check the Sectorial Charts before stating what types of Fireteams are allowed. You cannot currently go by what is in Army. :-(
EM CCW is a weapon that has N+E/M ammo and saves are done against BTS. So a normal hit applies the Effects of both ammunitions if applicable thus making it cause wounds (Normal ammo) and it causes 2 saves against halved BTS (E/M ammo) topping the failed save with Isolation (and in cases with Immo-B state too). A crit adds an extra save that has the combined Effects for both ammo as described in their critical hit so it is a wounding (Normal) save against halved BTS (E/M ammo) with the usual toppings coming from E/M. So when critting, you can cause 3 wounds. EDIT: Fixed failed quotation
Wait, I have to get this straight: Morlock wins FtF with a Crit. 1st hit is: 1 Normal Save against BTS, (possibly) resulting in a wound 2 Saves against BTS halved, (possibly) resulting in Isolated aso. To this point its completely clear. But now the Crit: Because of the Crit I now roll the follwing? 2 Saves against BTS halved, resulting in (possibly) wounds AND (possibly) Isolated aso.? So 3 chances to wound and 4 chances to inflict Isolated (aso.)? Is this the interpretation of p. 74 of N4 rulebook "The additional Saving Roll will apply the effects of the different types Ammunition that compose it, if applicable." ???
NO. It's exactly as described by Jenian. You need to forget about how N+EM worked in N3, it's no longer two separate 'hits' per success. You need to look at the preceding paragraph as well: 'Combined Ammunition works as a single Ammunition that adds the effects of the different Ammunitions that compose it.' So a normal non-Critical hit from N+EM applies the effects of both ammo types to all Saving Rolls. You force two Saving Rolls (thanks to EM ammo), they are made against BTS (due to EM and the weapon profile), the BTS value is halved (EM), each failed Saving Roll removes a point of W/STR (Normal ammo), Isolates the target (EM) and IMM-Bs the target if they are HI/REM/TAG (EM). If it's a Critical, the only change is that you're forcing three Saving Rolls, each of which can remove a W/STR, cause Isolated and cause IMM-B.
Morlock wins FtF with a Crit. 1st hit is: 1 Normal Save against BTS, (possibly) resulting in a wound 2 Saves against BTS halved, (possibly) resulting in Isolated aso. To this point its completely clear. This is not the way it works, atleast as I understand it. Let's not even go to the crit part yet. This splitting of the hits in two parts feels like a N3 remnant, the rules for N4 state that each hit combines the ammunition effects if able. So when N+E/M gets a hit, the E/M side states you make 2 saves with halved bts, non leathal, plus added effects, and the normal side makes tou deal a wound. So when you combine the effects I would see it making the enemy save with BTS (this is clearly stated in the weapon description, so no some are armor saves, some are not) twice, because of the E/M, with havled BTS, and all fails causing a wound (decause of the normal ammo), isolated/immo if appliable (because of the E/M). When the base hit is structured like this it is easy to see that a crit adds one more save with BTS (halved) causing a wound and extra.
@natetehaggresar pointed out some changes already but let me start: Avicenna: got bioimmunity (can always use her BTS for saving rolls against Attacks) Zoe & Pi-Well: same as Avicenna, Shock immunity, BTS 3! Reverend Healers: a bit cheaper (multi), CC22 Reverend Moiras: now able to form a haris thanks to the Custodiers Riot Grrls: BS Attack (+1 Dam) Taskmasters: chaper HMG got Shock mines Bran Do Castro: he's always a specialist now Zeros: more expensive for no further benefit, at least the sniper got cheaper Überfallkommando: CC 24, combination of MA L2 (+3 / -3) and NBW (cancels opponent's MA): therefore MUCH more effective in CC than before (I honetly believe this combination will mark the new CC specialists in N4 since that lousy new MA chart is just rubbish) Morlocks: CC 23, they're now better in CC than Bran, Assault Pistol Morlock got cheaper Meteor Zond: now with a BSG profile Sixth sense changed, there's no chance to delay AROs anymore which has IMO a huge impact on firetems already. All in all I'm also not too happy about the new Bakunin. In general the troops I liked and played most got better whilst the remaining troops just kept being crappy or got even more expensive.
Let's not forget the overhauled Prowler. With Hidden Deployment, KHD+BTS6 or no more tax on Spitfire he really has a place now. No longer just a more expensive Zero+. KHD, D-charges and BSG on the same profile checks a lot of boxes at once if classifieds stay roughly the same.
I dunno. Moderators were awful, now they definitely have a place IMHO. That makes me happy. - +1 WIP to WIP13 is huge - Especially Cheap hacker with that WIP (and with spotlight being a MOD-less ARO). - BTS 3 now is good for that hacker - Pitcher dropped to 0 SWC to synergise with that hacking - CC 18 (up5) + PARA -6 CWW makes them OK ish at defending themselves or ganging up (though I'd rather some profiles got Zapper like / instead of Moiras) - Paramedic got useful (no neg mod, successes ignore failures with multi burst), esp linked with say HI - and co-incidentally - - They can link with Riots / (+ Taskmaster) now. All in all they went from terrible to pretty handy, and still cheap. All in all you might actually doctor one occasionally even, making use of Shock Immunity.
@Ghost87 Well it was mentioned a few times before so I refrained from echoing. Needles to say that seeing the Prowlers' change was my happiest moment in N4 so far :D
This. Yes, there were the mentioned changes in the profiles, but IMO these changes don't justify calling the units "changed" or even "buffed". For example the Reverend Healer. Yes, she's better now in CC, but will she use it actively, hunting down units in CC? I doubt it. Instead the CC will only scare off some of the lesser CC-specialists like it did before, because there is a chance she will win the FTF and if she does, the EXP CCW hits hard. But that was the same in N3. BTW: while CC 22 sounds nice ... its not so nice anymore if you consider that a 7 points Transductor with the right REM Racer is at CC 22 as well. And will win the FTF more often, cause his PARA CCW delivers another -3. The same is IMO the case for many units and many of the changes. Which for units that worked in N3 is okay. Never change a running system. But for unit that were (considered) crap thats not so good. So in the end it's exactly like you said: "the troops (...) played most got better whilst the remaining troops just kept being crappy or got even more expensive." Which makes me sad. Only real exception: The Prowler, like already mentioned.
Yeah, and with the new Infiltration rule Bran got wotde in his Job as well. He'll just infiltrate on his PH of 13 in the opponent's half instead of the 16 like on N3 and that was already a gamble.
I have to agree with the OP in that CJC is the big winner now. Lot of cool options and most units revised to some degree. TJC got some changes, specially in the fireteam section. BJC the big looser. That is sure for nomads, and maybe for all N4 (but here will be a lot of discrepancies. Why all of that? first of all, all factions get a lot of new cool options for fireteams, that is something not only we get, more like we got later into the fireteam party. Also, with so many units getting better, any "not so good unit in n3" that gets "the same" is actually getting worse comparativelly. So with all of that, and in my opinion Jazz... getting HD+ and trinity makes her a better hacker than Mary and more versatile than our previous HD+. Is good for her...but just a kick in the face to our previous hackers. Intruder: mostly unchanged, but loosing LT option is a hit to me, because it was one of my main LT options in certain missions. The new MR looks cool though. Wildcats stealed the grenzers' job, both in vainilla, but also in CJC. I don't know if they will be used or not, but my guess is that, because they are the only linkable MSV in CJC, they will be used a bit (yet, some people will say that they are OP because they are used). Mobile Brigada: got a buff to ARM. I think is a good way to make them a bit different than other vainilla HI, and make them more different than HM Gecko: got a new role. MK12 D17 or a good B4 weapon, with a boost on ARM, I think it will see more use because of its performance and not because "is a cheap TAG" REMs: Sad we didn't get a more deep look into some of our rems. ARM and 360 visor got cheaper in the game, but that is not seen in the tsyklon profiles, so they got a little bit worse comparativelly. Their redeeming point is getting wildcart, but will remain as the expensive gen2 remotes. Pulsebots got cheaper, which is cool on the other side Moran: The repeater with camo interaction will bring a lot of headaches, and given time, a nerf. The loosing of perimetral rules means that a lot of tactics will not be able anymore (detonating mines or other koalas with ours mostly) Jaguars and McMurder lose stealth, not a big nerf, but is a change. Moderatos: Got a WIP boost while remained cheap. Our cheaper hacker in vainilla, and now better than alguaciles, which sadly is not much to say anyway Prowlers: Giving them hidden deploy is a strange move to make them still expensive. Lost bioimunity, but got instead better BTS and shock inmunity, not sure if its a good change.I don't dislike it though, just not sure if this will make them good enough again or not. This way we can see them as a halfway TO for BJC, which is cool in some ways. observancy got their points addapted, but unchecked. Only did the changes to the new edition, but still paying for a discount skill, just a waste. They at least got the FT options we were expecting, but having the profiles not a check, again, something that also happened in n3 makes me afraid that in the revision in 2 years, will happen the same again. Reverend Moiras: they got new skills... paying for them without the standard point check, which is bad. Getting N2 is nice, good adition. Getting NCO for all FT members is just bloat. Is not as we had LT2 in BJC to justify it. A single good profile with it would suffice and macke them more usefull. And I don't think they will be even used in vainilla, because they are more expensive now. I hope I am wrong, but I think this is one of the worst changes in the game. Kusanagi got the weapons points change, just that... in the edition where every NWI is getting SI, she will remain as one of the few killable dudes with shock. Another no change that gets worse than before. Sineaters: As with all observancy, they remain expensives and not so useful, but at least their SWC in the HMG got fixed (to the same degree HI did, so is not so much of a boost). Same opinion than with Kusanagi Riot Grrls: The changes to MSV1 are important to these girls because are our only MSV in BJC. That makes them better... and thanks to the changes to the observancy, one of our few options in the sectorial. The worst thing is that, because they will remain good, a lot of people will complain about them while will say to us to not complain about observancy because we still have riots. Taskmasters: almost unchanged, but they can now link with RG, which I like a lot, now I have to finish my taskmistress conversion XD Hecklers: The nerf to jammer will make them not so useful in their previous role, so if we want to use them as before, we will need to spam them. Mary: became a more "active turn hacker", but without stealth, or surprise shot, her oblivion will not be as powerful as it seems. Still will be good. Miranda lost the irregular option and became wildcard, now it can be used in more lists (maybe in the broharis to bring a mimetism -6 haris with no hackable component. Puppetactica: got a bit of revamp. If I understood it correctly, the master can aro now and the pupets always get the B+1 in active, but not in reactive. This will make them more agresive, and less punishing in ARO Raoul: got mimetism -6, and wildcard. As with kusanagi, he didn't get shock inmunity. I think the parachutist will still be used a lot Cheerkiller: a little sad to see they cannot go with perseus, but that was too obvious, so expected. In overall, I think they look great Interventors: can link with securitates, which is great. Grenzers: Loose core, but now interventors link with securitates, so not so bad. Get marksmanship in one profile, but because better units are getting cheaper, in overall they are getting just worse. In vainilla their spot is stolen by wildcats, and in TJC, maybe one will be used to bring extra utility in some fireteam, but not so sure. Zondnaut: loses smoke in the mounted version, which is a big hit. Smoke grenade launchers got worse also, so in overall, this unit got a nerf. Kriza: got better fireteam options, and now the burst mod can stack. The -3 can be canceled now with MSV, but will stack with suppresive fire. When new fireteam rules appear, expect a nerf to him, but in overall, I think it will be better against more units than before, but worse against what we needed it the most. A sidestep as much. The changes in hacking will make the custodians an easy to kill target, while against interventors most hackers will need to use their own repeater. But because all of that, our own hacking will be not so powerfull as some are so afraid. It will still be order consuming. The worse thing is the losing of supportware in most HD, which is a nasty way to make us play EVO remotes The new remracers unit looks very promising for us. Such a pity that the remote faction (or so have said CB several times) didn't get any special remdriver unit.... just the same as everyone else. But well, maybe when BJC gets checked (Because TJC will not be checked in this edition unless it is for a nerf)
I will give a few of my debatable takes I believe where not shared: As a whole Nomad gained little access to AP ammo - In a meta that will see an increased number of HI and TAG, so the extra reliance on hacking is needed. Since we should be able to give targeted states like candies, I wonder how much guided missile will be needed. - CJC Jazz may be the most under costed profile in N4 atm - BJC You can now have a MSV1 HI ML in a defensive core. Maybe some of the scariest ARO in the game especially at this price point. - TJC TJC did not feel like it needed too much to get better and received a lot. TJC's profiles where good but the lack of flexibility was the big hindrance. Now that the sectorial gained a lot of it, it is a very exciting time.
Yup, the Zondnautica got his ass handed to him. Too lazy to compare N3 prices but i feel it doesn't cost more anyway. But they now Can dodge without malus, plus you get the move even in active turn which is sweet. But BS 10 zondmate and New smoke grenade launcher range bands makes it pretty Bad, good thing impetuouses are now "optional" . In TJC we actually kinda lose our smoke option outside Perseus as we got our MSV2, which is now not as important as it could be in N3 because of the rework on them. It has been said already, but i feel like TJC and CJC got a lot of love between New profiles and N4 adaptations while BJC didnot get much. Also i agree that i'm bumped that WE did not get Remdriver options oustide vanilla nor a named one. On this part tsyklon and Lunokhod are more expensive, and Vostok is wonderful though pricey (but totally expected) and the first two have some nice thing going on i think. Love the minelayer Lunokhod and wildcard tsyklons, love the BSG on meteor (much needed imho) and love that spotlight is now legit in ARO. Add the fact that i don't see any programs having a specified duration now and i think vertigo zonds will Make a little Come back
hum, but it is a nerf. Minelayer on the Lunokhod do that just 1 Crazy Koala can be deployed at deployement. Luno have no mines.
You're right, but with the changes on Crazykoalas i like the opportunity of having one deployed right away. But you're right, between this and the cost increase they got nerfed. I don't like how CK work now, but they are a lot easier to use and avoid headaches explaining in to your opponent. And they were pretty useless with the latest HSN3 updates imho.
Remember that they now work more like Mines, and will trigger against enemy AROs. When they're on a unit with a Repeater, that means you can walk up near a Hackable target while completely outside LoF and place a CrazyKoala. Then, when you hack the target through the Lunokhod's Repeater, any Reset will trigger an auto-hitting CrazyKoala.
