Maybe this is already mentioned somewhere else... but according to the the OCF sectorial chart Rodoks can form a haris fireteam, but don't appear to have the Haris skill. Does anyone know which of these is presumably an error?
missing harris skill in army builder is an error. There were already a similar case with Santiago and MO, where in-app santiago was missing a wildcard perk.
Just to jump on this to ask a wider question on Rodoks... They've gone up significantly, and I can't understand why. They were already a little shaded by our unidrons (who can now go prone, woop!). Now superjump rules has been toned right down. Yes they got 4-4 but that's not unit-specific, that's a game-wide change to MI. They seem to have been given a few points in CC and a heavy pistol, and that's the kind of thing that was used to inflate a unit's cost in N3. No other changes I can see. Can someone explain to me what's pushing this increase? I was kind of hoping to see a point or two haircut, not a chunky increase. A Rodok team is one of the last missing pieces of my Onyx collection, and I can't see why I'd add them now.
They went up by 3pts, that's not so significant. A lot of MI got a similar price increase, mostly because of increased MOV, and to shotguns going up 1pt. Rodoks also got +4 CC and Heavy Pistols. Regarding Rodoks and Unidrons - they serve completely different roles and don't compete for the same spot. One is a basic line infantry, its main tasks being running Core and guarding the backline. The other is a mobile unit with Mimetism, good for pushing into the midfield, maybe escorting Samaritan to his meal.
As Stiopa says, MI almost universally went up in price with their MOV increase. Some of the Rodoks then went up another point due to Boarding Shotguns getting more expensive.
Just a super quick scan, but Druze haven't really, plus they've gained +1 dmg! Grunts, Ye Mao got better? Wildcats seem'ed to have comparably risen in price, but then gained MSV1? Are we paying a Combined tax now or something lol.
Seriously? Do you want to go through the other (checks the master spreadsheet) 68 Medium Infantry units you haven't mentioned, and which multiple factions' players have been complaining about rising in cost?
Oh please. A lot of stuff changed in price just a bit, one way or another. Tankhunters are 3pts more expensive, because of 4-4 MOV and AP Mines. Kurgats, LI, got +1 BS, +3 BTS, and AP Mines, also for 3pts. Hellcats went 2pts up, Vargars 0-2pts... though there are some other factors, because Nisse got 2pts cheaper. Bottom line is that almost all armies saw some pricing hikes when it comes to MI, it's not a "CA tax" :V
Thanks! I kind of figured but with Suryats gaining the Haris option it didn't seem unreasonable that they would fill that spot. To comment on people's thoughts on the viability of Rodoks: I was a little surprised by the cost increase at first too, but I think paired with what they gained it isn't unreasonable. The sad part is that the specialists lost the mines. I'm eager to give the haris of HMG, shotgun/mines, and KerrNau a shot. It seems like a pretty effective midfield trio that can also clear out (or just avoid) long range ARO threats.
Like I said, a quick scan, just put MI in the app and had a look. You mention things like Wildcats going up 2 points, but they get MSV1, no mention on Druze but they gain +1 dmg? Apparently superjump has had a nerf (Correct me if I'm wrong, my book still hasn't come from darksphere) Which leaves me asking the question why some get a pretty great boost in skills like this for their points & we don't? Where's the reasoning.
Wildcats went up five points, and gained MSV1, which costs less than five points. It’s Hellcats that went up 2pt. Druze are almost universally acknowledged as underperforming for their points cost. Rodoks are... not. The ‘nerf’ to Super-Jump can already be read on the CodeOne wiki, as it doesn’t change in N4 - there is no more ‘free’ falling. You have to be able to reach a landing point, so no more jumping up 4” and then falling back down. Which brings it in line with its very low cost of about a point.
Also, while Rodoks - which were widely seen as a very good unit for their N3 price - went up a bit, a lot of CA/Onyx stuff went down. Look at Suryats. Look at Samaritans. Look at Xeodrons. While Rodok Haris might cost 9 pts more, some of the more expensive Onyx units will be easier to field now.
I'm only looking at Mads here as I'm still working, Moiras? NCO, number 2, Zapper +2 MV . 1point? Hacker same , Lt. Down? Has (Like you've said) This nerf been applied to all MI? If not why not. (Didn't realise Druze had fatality b4, fair one)
@Morray it's not a nerf, for most units it's in line with their statline changes. It hasn't been applied consistently across all units, but there might be other pricing factors in play, ones not visible to us. And again, in N3 Rodoks were widely regarded as one of the best - if not the best - Morat MI's. Being 3 pts more expensive makes them better balanced, not less.
I know the Xeo's going down is nice, to a point those & the reported Overdrons sound almost like an auto include, (As with all other faction's TAGs) but speaking as an Onyx player I think we were hoping for a bit more list variety buffs. I always found the Suryats slotted into a bit of a weird spot for us, same as the Samis, but I know how you preach they're the bee's knee's, I am going to try them out over the next few months see what I find. Maybe a wider issue is factions who rely on HI and the such are going to get a bigger buff faction wide. (I do like how regen works now though)
N4 Regeneration is cool, I'm looking forward to running my SEF with even more resilient infiltrators. Most TAGs will never be an autoinclude - even discounted they're still a major investment with numerous weaknesses - but they'll be easier to run and support, which was the point of many N4 changes. Suryats were in a weird spot in N3, should fare much better in N4, both in MAF and Onyx. Samaritans might still be in a weird one, they're expensive troopers that really want to get into CC. Might work best, if your opponents tend to use many infiltrators to feed upon.
As we’ve discussed up-thread (unless it was the other Onyx thread), N4 has had an increase in list variety. Effectively double the number of Harises. From zero Wildcards to two. Multiple NCO options gives us more flexibility in what LTs we take, and we gained NCOs who can use their own LT Order without revealing that they’re the LT (Nourkias and Legates). We’ve got more ability to get stuff up the table at the start of the game, with Ko Dali’s Infiltration option and the Legates getting an extra 4” of Forward Deployment. Nexus Operatives are no longer limited to one in a Unidron Core. That’s all stuff that has a noticeable impact on the kinds of lists that can be written. Just for a single example, a Unidron Core could contain a Nexus Specialist Operative LT or Hacker LT, and a Nexus Spitfire NCO to use the LT Order on the Fireteam.
All good points. I've had two games with a large pool of core/wildcard troops in the past few days and it's made my cores much more effective. When Legates, Kerr and Nexus can all happily co-exist in a unidron link it makes for a stronger late-game link as they can just reform and keep plugging away. It really syncs well with a Unidron ML on aro on 1st turn too, which I always like to have as an option. I want to like the Rodoks as much but whenever I proxy a link team of them I just end up wishing I'd brought Unidrons. The only things that really appealed to me were the unpredictable attack vectors through superjump, and the heavy emphasis on minelaying for board control. 4-2 wasn't such a big deal for them as they could start in FD and could spit out mines every second short order. Both of those aspects have been nerfed, with superjump antics reduced to twitching over low walls (<9cm) and three profiles losing mines. That's not a good swap for a heavy pistol, CC19 and +3 points. Okay CC (w/o martial arts and good weapons) has always struck me as a bit of a waste, when there are so many specialised cheap units that would love the chance to trade up against an expensive unit that thinks it can melee. Forgive me if I'm wrong, and I'm not saying this to kick off or anything, but I don't think it's chicken little behaviour to point this out, is it?
Like I've said up-thread, I will miss the Mines. :-( For your 'low walls' comment, what kind of terrain is on your tables? 9cm is higher than almost all single-storey buildings on the market, but 14cm in N3 wasn't enough to see over another storey.
