Back in N3, we could have Marksmanship L2 (a.k.a. Marksmanship in N4) only by buffing remotes, getting Zhayedan Sniper/Breaker Rifle, or by getting Wild Bill whose weapons were limited to Rifle, Contender, and MULTI Pistols. In N4, all Zhayedans get Marksmanship, all Bolts get Marksmanship, and Atalanta gets Marksmanship (along with the option to shoot twice on 18s as an ARO all the time). The "your units' overpowered skills are balanced out by the enemy units' bullshit" type of power creep was exciting initially, but after reading some PanO forums the excitement started wearing a bit thin. I am really hoping the ITS missions won't be supporting this rip-and-tear mentality that turns any mission into a Firefight. So what do you think about all this and would you say that ITS missions can change the current state of affairs in any way?
I think this goes beyond marksmanship, it by itself I'm not too opposed to. Atalanta is not effected too much by it as she lost the +3 bs tinbot so it kind of evens out (Though she did go up a BS in total). Zhayedads got put into a better place which they needed with a skill they already had, Bolts also enjoy the boost but it's kind of out of nowhere for them.
Personally, I think N4 will have less total Marksmanship then N3. In n3,everyone's bots were getting with assisted fire. Now only people with EVOs will be using it. Zhayendans and Bolts really needed something unique. Now there is an actual reason to use them.
IMHO Marksmanship was done good on the N3 Zhayedans and only on them. Sniper and Breaker with Marksmanship had sense. Paying an order to buff a drone was good too. Having this skill on HMG is weird, especially now with Shock on Zhay. And I'm saying this as a Haqqislam player. I'd rather see it taken away from HMGs, Spitfires et cetera. Still if Specnaz still have it, and they are the most terrifying unit with that skill because of combination with Camo, Surprise Attack et cetera, than OK. I'll use it too ;) PozdRawiam / Greetings
Depends how this all shakes out. Atalanta is genuinely good enough to be left out as a solo hard ARO against most links, an almost unique position in N4, but is actually quite vulnerable to Coordinated Orders, Surprise Shot and White Noise- the latter two weaknesses also a rarity due to link dominance, and the game is probably better for having Atalanta in it. Bolts are now seriously effective in whatever situation they find themselves in, enough for me to really consider fielding them in Vanilla. If they don't pick up Wildcard or other major means of cheapening their link when NCA releases in November I will have no complaints. Zhayedans probably needed the help more than Bolts, but I'm less familiar with Haqq than the other factions so I'm reserving judgment for now. The reduction in easy REM access to Marksmanship is a fairly big deal, and will probably force people into actually playing the Hacking game to get the best use out of their optimised little robots.
Right, I forgot about the dreaded Spetsnaz. In my opinion, even though the appearance of Marskmanship may seem concerning, it is thankfully present on 1-wound models only (Wild Bill being the sole exception) so this balances things out a little. As for the EVO hackers being the only guys with Assisted Fire: given their 10-point discount you can also make an argument that they became very affordable as well. So in some cases, like in ForCo that has Bolts and a Peacemaker, why not take both AND the EVO? But in a meta where TAGs are meant to become more commonplace, I can see why they would buff certain few models with Marksmanship. So, again, "my OP is balanced out by your OP". The hacking game is shaping up to be something interesting indeed. I can see people surrounding their EVO hackers in a web of repeaters that are monitored by the KHD.
Marksmanship is a very good skill in my book for several reasons. - it provides a different may to mess with MODs outside of Mimetims and MSVs - it only partially counters Cover instead of being a hardcounter (you still get the rather big boon of +3 ARM) - it doesn't always provide a benefit and is situational. Troop impetuous or outside of cover? MMS doesn't do anything.
Also, I guess Marksmanship is kinda necessary for a game where a TAG gains cover behind a fire hydrant.
Marksmanship is worse on Atalanta than her old +3 BS tinbot. Also Zhayedans were at best mediocre, if not actually awful, for all of N3, and with Marksmanship they're now competing with other options in Ramah, not better, just competing. Finally, are we that used to Bolts being kinda sucky that when we get a version that actually competes with Bagh-Maris and Nisse it gets called OP?
All the examples given are kinda meh. Atalanta lost +3 BS from the spot bot. I'd rather have +3 BS, then only getting +3 BS when I shoot a target in cover. As mentioned her BS went up 1, but I hardly think this is powercreep overall, and she pays for the TR. Zhaydens IMO still don't stack up well to Jannisaries, whose native BS is 2 pips higher, + arm + wounds, so Zhaydens only shoot a little better than Jannisaries when the target is in cover. I can see a Zhayden haris as an assult piece, but overall I'd still go with Jannisaries for a CORE. Bolts don't have any mod stacking. Marksmanship here really donesn't represent any power creep IMO. Its not like they have a SS, mimitism, visor.
for Atalanta, I fired as bs 20 very, very rarely. and the targets that I was firing at were so screwed that Atalanta generally was in no real danger from the target. Because of this, firing at bs 18 shock msr rounds pretty much guaranteed is preferred for me. Coupled with her new shock immunity and her TR ability, she is a marksman that is now quite difficult to take down. and while she may pay for that TR, it is an extremely powerful ability on her.
Why are Jannasiers BS 14? That seems yet another typo in army 7. Edit: Oh it seems N4 has given Haqqislam quite a few BS increases. How interesting.
The Muyib bump to BS 13 was quite interesting. The Spitfire and HRL profiles are "locked" behind paying for Tactical Awareness though which... Seems like it's mostly good? If the HRL Muyib is in a defensive link maybe it's wasted points?
One order to reposition your people around and maybe take a shot at burst 3 isn't the most useless thing, since rarely are even defensive teams totally static. Depends on a bunch of other factors and the expected lifespan of the HRL, though, so more often than not I think it might drift more to wasted than useful.
