If people are going to mistake well laid out criticism for doomsaying then they're no better then the doomsayers. Miraclebutt literally choose you as the closest person to hit because of actions by others. It was a pitiful read that took nothing into account of what you said. It was a screech and flail from someone who broke. That kind of head in sand bullshit along with the constant doomsayers is why I rarely come here. Assholes from both sides share equal blame for why this place is a cesspit.
Why not try to be more positive? I've been wondering this too for years. I've been playing Infinity since N2, joined the old forums in 2011, drew few comics there, did some fan art also. It was fun forum. I love (and miss) those silly comics from those times. I started with ALEPH (basically played Vedict, didn't care for greeks) and also found Bakunin. At one point around 2013 I had a really poor experience with certain small tournament in nearby city. That made me stop attending tournaments and havn't attended since. I didn't join the new forums for a long time either. Didn't see the point but I lurked a lot. Mostly observing. Seen the changes, seen the storyline going forward, seen the discussions on these forums. Currently - after almost 10 years - I play all of OSSS, Bakunin, IA, JSA, Ikari, Star Co. and O-12. My deepest love is for Bakunin. However, I like to play IA a lot. It is just so different toolkit to play with than any of the other factions. When IA was announced, I was intrigued. Then IA came and I was impressed. A sectorial full of heavy infantry and interesting tools; sectorial that can do what they are supposed to do and they are robust enough to survive doing it. Down talking Zhenca and Hulang is also weird. They work on the table and excell at their purpose. They are an interesting precision tool with a purpose but if you play them like they are sledgehammer, you might get disappointed. Sofar I havn't been disapointed in IA. It is an interesting secotrial that can do interesting things. However, IA is not perfect but nothing should be! Otherwise it would be dull experience to try playing it. I like my games in "hard mode" and I love a good challenge. IA gives different kind of challenge. The kind I don't get from elsewhere. But now on to the topic, about being more positive. It is so mindboggling how much muck some people who themselves play Yu-Jing can throw so much muck on Yu-Jing - their own chosen faction. Especially on this forum section; a section dedicated for discussion between Yu-Jing players - fans of the faction. This place should be the place where you should find cheerful discussions, interesting tactics and "good feels" on your own chosen faction. It is the place where new interested players go to check what being a Yu-Jing player is about - but oh my what kind of welcome it is. This forum section is so peculiar in its attitude that in our gaming group this forum section has become a joke - Yu-Jing players whine about everything they have. To my eyes the sad thing is: Those new players who are thrilled about Infinity and want to join our games tend to initially go for Yu-Jing as that is the faction none really plays as a main force here. But after an evening visiting these forums they change their faction to something else just because they felt bad - too much "misery likes company"-kind attitude. There are cheerful Yu-Jing players in other cities. I know there are those because I've met them and had fun with them. It is just... This forum section is not cheerful in any way and it is the first place a potential Yu-Jing player stumbles on (apart from Reddit and 4chan - those are... well...) so why not start actually talking about what you like in Yu-Jing? Why not share what you enjoy and grow out of that negative mindset? Make this place more welcoming to new and old players. Human mind, with its interpretation of propability of event happening, is biased towards how many times you encounter said event. The more often you encounter something, the more propable it feels. There are a lot more people reading these forums than what there are people writing here. Those posts are read by hundreds of people. The attitude and feeling in a single post causes a feeling in the reader. Those feelings might change attitudes or opinions. Even a single post where the attitude is negative, will affect the feelings of hundreds of people towards negative. The human mind is affected by what it encounters. If you encounter mostly negative feedback, negative opinion, nitpicking on rules or whining, you'll get the general feeling of unease. If there is a place where that is more likely to occur, you most likely try to avoid that place by intuition. I feel that Yu-Jing section is suffering from this and so is the faction image. Sorry, this post became longer than I thought it would. EDIT: Corrected some spelling mistakes :<
Got to say, I am amused by most of the naysayers.... Mostly it's the same people over and over again. I tend to ignore the most things these people write. I started infinity last year with JSA (I know I am a horrible person) because of the awesome minis. I liked the Invincible army and the general yu yingese miniaturedesign a lot. In my opinion Yu Ying (and JSA and the shasvastii) are some of the most beautiful and well designed miniatures in a game with generally stunning minis. So naturally I got into yu jing next and got kaldstrom. After that I will finally paint my Imperial service (It's really the fault of one person here in the forum who wrote a great tactica, so thanks for that ) and other yu Ying minis. (my wallet is weeping) For me the game is not just about winning (yeah it's cool but I can still can count my games on one hand and even when I lost it was a lot of fun and I learned something new), the miniatures are a big part and I will play a mini even if it's rules aren't optimized just because it's beautiful or it fits thematically into the list. I guess what I want to say is, there are amazing individuals in the hobby, and with those I enjoy the exchange and reading what they got to say. And I try to focus on those things. I am excited what N4 will bring for all of us. And hope that we all, whatever faction you play and identify with will have good times and a lot of fun with the game. Just to bring some positivity into this thread.
I doubt anybody here is "naysaying" about Yu Jing minis being really great. It's its main selling point.
It's been a hallmark of the faction since IS came out. So many Pheasants were bought and then never ever saw a game. At least Cranes got good with N3.
If it wasn't for the minis I wouldn't be playing! Well that's not really true, I love the rules too. With all of it's faults, it's still better than rolling a bucket of d6. I really don't think I've seen true naysayers. I've seen criticism and I've seen those speculating on what our changes might be. Some saying they are not happy (including me). But I think I've maybe seen one post of someone saying they were done and taking their ball home. And that wasn't YJ i think. I'm going to keep on playing. Hell, they could make YJ an army that wins with out doing anything and I'd still get my butt kicked! But I'll keep on playing and painting and having fun.
I think people complaining are really out of context. With the current profiles we're seen that N4 costs is scaling similar to C1. That's probably why PANO, EC and Yujing are not seen new profiles. And it makes sense that CB want's C1 and N4 on the same vive. We've seen a pattern of cost reduction for HIs and TAG-like troops, and a point reduction or boost on the CC attribute. I think this inproves will greatly benefit Yujing. We've seen it on the daofei C1 profile, the basic HIs in the "20-25" point range, daofei dropping to 45-50 point range and getting buffs... So please guys try to be patient and wait
The Emperor bless their souls. Here is to them getting their cool techie braids someday hopefully. Also, I very much doubt the Dao Fei is dropping to 45-50 points and getting buffs.
That sort of is the problem here. I will write it from my own persolal experience: I do love the game, I play only YJ in all of its forms, and I dont have any intention to start another faction, or quit the game. So another happy and satisfied player. But writing here how happy and cheerful I am doesnt do anything, why on earth would you do that anyway? What you do is leave critique when its adequate. And lets be honest, CB isnt rolemodel company so in some cases there is alot of critique to leave. But its not done with ill intentions, it is something that is done to help the game in the long run.
Daofei didn't change in cost, at least the spitfire profile didn't, that's already been spoiled in the fake battle report for N4.
This makes me sad for my awesome dao fei guy. Around high 40s or 50 points feels about right. But costing more than a su jian doesn't cut it man...
There's always hope, until September 25. Even the spoiled profiles are still subject to change until they actually start printing.
I thought you were saying it made you sad for the Dao Fei that they lost their braids. I know that made me sad for them. But yeah, it's mainly that battle report with the Yu Jing list costing more or less the same while sporting 3 HI that makes me highly wary of all those supposed buffs and point discounts we are getting; that and of course CB's track record. It's also possible they didn't even have N4 costs for Yu Jing when they did that battle report, fits perfectly with all the amateur hour vibes I'm getting from this N4 release. And about the Dao Fei thing, it's been long theorized that Camo and Infiltration is pricier for HI because supposedly they benefit more from it and I'm sure they'll keep that "design philosophy" there for us while they release Sombras. In fact it's been theorised there are skills that cost more for HI platforms even when the HI tag doesn't mean anything anymore except being a net disadvantage to the profile sporting it.
I did buy an old Daofei HMG instead of a new one largely for this reason. One of the old Gentle Winter fanfic stories had a bit of flavour text about those braids being used as communications devices and secondary close combat weapons that can distract and harass foes, and as a result they are now permanently awesome to me. I like the new-school YJ designs a lot as well, but ISS-era stuff is my favourite thanks to all the cool sci-fi stuff being layered on Chinese historical fashion motifs like the queue (sure I misspelled that) tentacle on helmets and the Hsien's robes.
I like the new sculpts too but the braids helped a lot to give some sculpts individuality and to difference them from the sometimes bland "all the HI are similar" problem
I only recently picked up the Crane and Pheasant from the ISS starter and boy am I missing those braids on the Red Fury Pheasant and the Daofei. They allow for a whole different dynamic in pose and overall aesthetic. Please bring them back.
If I ever get into 3D printing, the first thing I'll print even before much needed guns options are braids for my pheasants, cranes and daofei. On the topic of yu-jing positivity, ISS is IMO one of the best designed sectorial in the game. I might be biased because I started with them and played them for many years, but unlike a lot of sectorial that makes you go "eeeeeh that's nice but vanilla does it better???", they have a strong identity and a very unique gameplay that really makes them stand appart.
I think everyone can agree ISS is well designed. It may suffer a bit from power creep, but almost everything that can't link with Pheasants is viable, fluffy and fun. I very, very nearly jumped into it before Uprising. Annoyingly, the Pheasant Red Fury has concept art for a closed helmet and braid but they went with the open visor on the final model.
