Oh boy, I can't wait to get hold of my insanely cheap Zuyongs! I mean, beside the fact that the Evaders statline is LITERALLY the same, with LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE profile having native Haris, Specialist Operative and Climbing plus, Veteran classification (for classified and ITS). The fact that with all those things in mind, the multi rifle + panzerfaust profile is still, somehow, 3 points cheaper than a basic Zuyong with a Combi Rifle... well... I trust that CB won't release the zuyongs for anything else but 15 - 18 points, right? Because anything else would be blatant powercreep and CB wouldn't do that from the birth of a new edition.... right..?
I have a question for the people saying there is no power creep, taking into account what we know about EVAders and what we know about Zuyong, what would you think a N4 Combi Zuyong should cost? And this is a serious question I would like to know your opinion about
You both seem to forget that MSV also has counters, so it is not like it is fine walking around with those even if you have zero use for them. Like the guy said, mimetism/camo works against everything without MSV which is like 90%+ of all profiles in the game ? And MSV only works ( depending on the level with varying degrees of success ) against mimetism/camo and smoke. And unlike mimetism/camo, MSV is actually potential liability. I could go into detail, but MSV should really be dirt cheap all things considered. As it stands it is good only on profiles that cheat by being superoptimised for MSV use ( Kamau for example ), and is completely ruining any fireteam core potential for all units forced to take it on all profiles because it is too expensive. And judging by the new Wildcats, this will sadly not change in N4.
Im comparing them as of now. Of course they might change but we are just trying to gauge what other armies might be. Not our fault they come out with stuff without context.
Geez the Yu Jing salt must be strong to spill all the way over into another factions forum right after getting a discount along with a buff to one of the strongest and most efficient Troopers in the game. EVAder seems good, no doubt. Seems like previously Spammy LI factions like CJC HB and Ariadna are getting that treatment to ease into Tactical Window. Wait to see the full picture.
Hey man, the game is actually going to get a million times better, you're so wrong about fireteams, units and characters are going to be running the mixed fireteam game into the ground, that's how awesome it's gonna be. Like Tom said from Mayacast, fireteams are becoming RPG adventuring parties... This is a huge win for everyone and a great decision by CB. I'd genuinely be surprised if Wildcats cannot do this in some shape or form by either them joining another unit or another unit joining them. Then throw in a character or two and you've got the coolest group of friends running around in whatever is the favorite flavor of each individual player. I'm so fucking for the idea of Some players preferring barebones HI plus and some characters backed by a light tag vs elite HI with LI vs MI visored bad asses led by a HI character with no visor. The possibilites are... Infinite.
Not sure what they DO yet without link rules. The Wildcats are looking redunant because of them, but it works the other way around. A Spitfire haris that can tow an engineer? It's an improved version that doesn't have a niche for terrain tables (which we use) and can't swap to bringing hackers for relevant missions/metas. EVA's niche right now is AP if meta commands and a bit better than what I already know I have for engineer missions. Territory hold if Geckos don't keep up. If I could only buy one I would only buy Wildcats for missions with terrain and low vis, althou probably neither. The camo guy is a much bigger deal, mid field penetration was a correg weakness imo and Bandits, while VERY good, had dimishing returns taking a second one (overlapping profile roles and irregular). New guy is adding a good amount of meta-counter list building. The new REM does as well for the obvious albedo/ODD options. Unlinked firepower that doesn't overlap with the Intruder is list-changing. It's important to remember that Corregidor was already good and getting me to change my list means fitting in to a game plan, not just having good stats. Related I really hope Bandits get messed up camo skills. Like a stronger surprise attack but no mimetism for a discount. They're already weird let's run with it.
I want to know how much Tsyklons are going to cost when the a Rostok profile costs the same. They've got to be in the mid-20 point range to be worthwhile. Unless it turns out that the MI REMS also get crowded out by the HI REMS :P
As far as MSV goes, it also works with terrain Low Visibility Zones. Almost nobody uses those rules with any frequency, but it's potent when combined with MSV: basically free Mimetism or even ODD.
The other point to note is that these added profiles for CJC opens up space for the Nomad influenced Merc armies to be more differentiated. This would allow StarCo can become more than a Raoul/Emily vehicle with expanded access/utility on 'old' CJC profiles without stepping on CJC's toes. Because one of the things that disappointed me about the NA2 sectorials is how 'narrow' they felt. So I'm very curious to see how those changes flow through the other sub-factions. Overall, I'm increasingly coming around to "if the N4 TJC/CJC design is Wildcats/Grenzers as liberally linkable then I can see Nomads returning to its 'MI' focussed routes" because I can see myself sprinkling in a few in every list. This also fits the fluff as it makes Wildcats the "Gestalt operative" mentioned in the StaCo fluff, which fits. Basically, it's the classic CB teaser problem: you know enough to know that your expectations are not being met, but not enough to know whether you should be pleasantly surprised or thoroughly disappointed because you can't see the overall shape. Still thoroughly concerned about expensive 1W troopers being squeezed out by NWI+Immunity/2W troopers unless Shock has been changed. We'll see in the coming days.
I think Evaders and Sombre will both be amazing due to having climbing plus. In the N3.5 games I've played being on a higher level is very powerful as you get cover for it. So being able to climb on top of a building and easily getting cover or denying it is going to be great. Not feeling great for wildcats because of that, I think Evaders offer too many tactical options over them now. But, perhaps we'll take both and wildcats can be a useful glass cannon. Then we might be in a good spot.
Won't be hard to make me change my list, given it was generally either 2 full combat groups or close enough. Question for me is whether the new toys more than make up for not being able to play with the old ones I loved and lost all together.
Excuse me. Zuyongs carry a mighty CC 17 statline over the Evader's meager CC 15, check your CC faction privilege please.
Small wonder you ask a serious question to get some honest debate and the trolling starts... I suppose you don't have a real answer? I mean, it's easy, there are people here arguing EVAders are not power crept at all because "we don't know N4 costs", so I'm just asking those people what they think the cost should be for the most comparable but inferior unit for it not to be power creep
To be honest as a Nomad/HB/DBS/Ikari/Dahshat player I don't care about power creep or not. So far every N4 profile I saw felt stronger than the corresponding N3 profile. Yes, even the Wildcats :) To answer your serious question: Is it a power creep if everything gets stronger at once? Right now it is still nonsense to compare N4 profiles to N3 profiles because there is still like 99% of the whole picture missing. And CB told us that they reworked the profiles - so let's wait with the power creep discussion until we can explore the whole new world of N4 - in 12 days :)
