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New nomad unit in N4 ?

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by PurpleSquid, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. Swiftage

    Swiftage Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I'll ever understand why CB released Grenzers & Securitate as they have. The 3+1 boxes are not necessarily a bad idea, Keisotsu+Kempeitai works really well imo as there are only 3 SWC options for Keisotsu & a SMR Kempei was needed. Seems a neat little solution to me.

    Prior to the Securitate box however we only has the combi versions in the starter. With HMG, MSR, FB, BS & hacker missing (assuming a dedicated hacker mini but not FO or paramedic) that's a box of 4 & a blister.

    For Grenzers we just had the MSR in Icestorm/Vanilla starter which left Combi+LF, BS, SF & ML (again assuming no FO etc.... sculpts). Another box of 4.

    Given these gaps it's baffling that we got this one "Franken-box" rather than separate boxes for each troop type & I genuinely cannot see why.
     
  2. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Because they don't think the items would sell otherwise and rather than giving you duplicate arms that are keyed to the specific poses(which would encourage duplicate purchases! especially if some of the duplicate arms were set up so that they keyed different profiles to different genders. Ex: Spitfire Grenzer is male but has arms keyed to also take a Boarding Shotgun while Grenzer BSG is female but has alternate arms to also have MSR which is male locked in the Nomad Action Pack now), they have to rely on you getting extraneous stuff.

    It's a shame they don't feel confident enough to release a Grenzer box. Even if it was something like:
    BSG, BSG+Biometric Visor L1, Raoul Spector, and FO.
     
  3. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    Because they know Grenzers are laughably bad and worth it only as upgrades to Securitate fireteam and have stats to back it up
     
  4. Ghost87

    Ghost87 Well-Known Member

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    Please don't exaggerate. If you ask some people here on the forums, one would only be allowed to play the top 10 min/max profiles per faction.

    Grenzers are not top tier but far away from "laughably bad" and will get some decent buffs by N4 rules.
     
  5. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I would not mind a 4-4 MSV1 Spitfire Haris for me.
     
  6. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Grenzers are not bad, just too expensive for their build, and have to compete with cheaper options that will do almost the same work. They have the same problems bolts had, but they are in nomads, so no reviews, no checks, no B coming to tell us they have nice things incoming, no a lot of extra miniatures... just "you have this, play it or play other things".

    Now if they get the extra mov (I still don't believe all MI will get it, some will remain 10-5, and a few ones will get even better mov), and with the new extra rules for MSV1, they will see more play... but if they are not checked more into (not only the "standard changes"), they will continue beign too expensive

    PD: also, I don't know why CB should not be confident. They have repeated over and over during this years in several videos and big tournaments that nomads are one of the top selling factions. Nomads are one of the most played factions too.. And when TJC was released they were surprised by the good sales...something seems off to me. The good numbers in nomad sales is what I think is the only reason for raoul and mary miniatures, something in the likes of "we can release this, those dudes will buy anything"
     
    #226 Armihaul, Sep 8, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
    nazroth likes this.
  7. Modock

    Modock Well-Known Member

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    If statements from CB are reliable, which I believe they are, 4-4 MOV, MSV1 buff and cheaper arm values Grenzer will become a premium MI unit.
    If we add flexible link options and the gorgeous look on top I'm really looking forward to Grenzers and N4 in general.
     
  8. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    they are reliable...sometimes, most of the time maybe, but not allways, and not near around the 90%. There is a record of inconsistencies, inacuracies, and what we call in spain "donde dije digo, digo Diego", which could be translated to "what I said when talking about X, was not that but this other completelly different thing".

    Also remember that they only talked about the lower arm cost for HI and TAGs (we can extrapolate to all other units, but that don't seem to happen in the spoilers we have seen), but if it happens, it will happen to all MI, and that means that those allready good, will remain better than grenzers because they will be also cheaper. None of those "general" changes (actually ITS patches) has put any "bad" trooper in a good possition during N3, just a little better, but the others got better to so in overall, they remained the same. So please, don't exagerate with "premium MI unit", because if those are the only changes they get, they will continue as a costly-but-not-so-good MI unit
     
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  9. Modock

    Modock Well-Known Member

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    You have to consider Grenzers were priced with the old formula so I'm pretty certain they will get a few points cheaper if no other changes are made.
     
  10. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    While I enjoy your Optimist vs. Pessimist discussion :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: it all comes down to the point if profiles are just "translated" to N4 or if profiles get a thorough revision.

    At least some profiles could really use a revision (Grenzer, Moira) while others might be fine with just a translation.

    I'm hoping for a N4-Nomads-Spoiler-Video this or next week. Like the one Haqq got.
     
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  11. Ghost87

    Ghost87 Well-Known Member

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    They already have V: Courage. Maybe they pick up dogged along the line. Wouldn't that be rad? :D
     
  12. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    yes, but we have seen several profiles in n3 with "alternate costs". Paying 4 for MSV1 while others pay the same for MSV2 is an example. Or the different values for feverbach depending on which faction we are looking. General changes are nice, but some units need a special look into them apart of the general ones
     
  13. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    As much as I'd love this (I really want to know what the EVAder does) I have a feeling we will see an Ariadnan video with an emphasis on USARF as they are in the same place as HB when it comes to tac window. Or a video that goes deep into a set of mechanics in N4, like hacking or bunch of the special rules.
     
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  14. Modock

    Modock Well-Known Member

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    I'm quite confident because Grenzers already got a small spotlight till now. Grenzers were used as a example for MSV1 buff and we already know a new model is coming
    so this means they were under "construction".
     
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  15. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Given all the changes to core rules that effect them Grenzers wont actually need all that much work if any to go from occasionally useful to good.
     
  16. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    I hope you are right. They were the on the spotlight by CB during icestorm, and again during the starter release, yet we got nothing new for them (only the biometric visor...), so they have been "in construction" since their first release. Those miniatures are so cool that they deserve more than what they have got this years.

    "general changes" didn't fix the worse TAGs, didn't fix the worse MI, or made people more willing of using combat jump with AD troopers. Good TAGs/MI just got better, while the worse ones remained mostly unused (except for fans, which got a little more options), and CJ were still used by the same people, just got a little more options for it, but people keep using lower levels most of the time. Why would we assume that the new general changes will fix a unit without further changes?
     
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  17. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    I will agree with you that the iterative ITS changes didn't do a whole lot (except for tac aware on tags and fixing Combat jump) they did help a little, but by general changes I meant decrease in cost in armour, the change to MSV1, MI becoming 4-4 (something that is going to be fairly universal going off of a comment in one the podcast interviews), baseline tactical window, crit and cover change. These changes are going to be what impact them the most, and greatly and allow them to really fill a role in TJC.
     
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  18. Darkinga

    Darkinga Nómada Nómada

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    Has anyone realized how powerful the Grenz Sensor is now? smoke, ... as now the MV1 can see through with a penalty, you can place it in position without another troop without a visor being able to see you, now you use sensor and hit -3, but the rival eats Smoke, cover and whatever can be added ...
     
  19. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    I do now, that is a very useful tool to have up your sleeve.
     
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  20. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    we have different values for "powerful". I cannot see an R3 BS10, damage 13 attack "powerful", when there are dudes with mimetism doing BS4-5 CD13 to 19 dmg 15, or remotes doing plain BS15 dmg 14 shock, or even AROing in the previous conditions. Useful? yes, of course, and that profile will have a niche as it has now, but we are talking about a single profile then, not all grenzers.
     
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