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New HB Ghulam Core Link Team options

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Firellon, Sep 5, 2020.

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What's your favourite choice of core link team for HB N4?

  1. Ghulams

    38.5%
  2. Govads

    26.9%
  3. Lasiqs

    23.1%
  4. Muyibs (I know they are wildcards now, I still want to have only Muyibs in there)

    11.5%
  1. exiti

    exiti Mad Scientist Gorilla

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    I am a little disappointed that Avicenna will no longer be usable with Govads. However, I feel that the Muyibs becoming Wildcards will at least give the link access to a doctor.
     
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  2. Doa

    Doa Well-Known Member

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    I am concerned about aro pieces although i see hb as a pure attack faction
     
  3. emperorsaistone

    emperorsaistone Well-Known Member

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    Nadhir are the answer.
     
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  4. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    With all the wild cards I find the Ghulam & Govid cores very similar. 80% of the models chosen can be the same. The main difference is if you want a Barid or Leila in the fire team (I'm not a fan of avicenne). Assuming there are no major hacking changes, it's a coin flip which I prefer. I'm leaning towards the Ghulam fireteam with the Barid. Just because it has the Pitcher, and Leila can still wildcard into a haris or duo giving you both in the same list. She would make an excellent duo with the Shakush(TAG).

    I need to know if MIs still get forwards deployment L1 before deciding if the Lasiq are worth it. I've tried them several times and they always under perform. If they get a new specialist profile I can see them excelling.
     
  5. Agorapocalypse

    Agorapocalypse Namurr and Nahab are girlfriends

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    Well Nadhir yeah, but also daylami, and flash bots, and ghulam sniper/missile, and linked hrl/sniper/missile, and warcor, and TR/missile bot, and shujae in suppressive turn 1. But aro threats arent really meant to contend with an active shooter most of the time anyways. Except sin eaters, those monsters.
     
  6. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

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    i'm feeling the same way, i don't see a lot of reasons to grab Avicenna instead a Ghulam Doc+ if she doesn't change =/ At least with Govads she had an excuse.
     
  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    IIRC they said bravery is going away
     
  8. Xagul82

    Xagul82 Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering if we get some models with NCO?

    Gesendet von meinem ASUS_I01WD mit Tapatalk
     
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  9. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    There are.
     
  10. Freebootas

    Freebootas Well-Known Member

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    You're going to want the Barid with the new hacking changes coming. Main thing for me is Spotlight is super strong now, so you want the pitcher and hacker in a core link.
     
  11. exiti

    exiti Mad Scientist Gorilla

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    That always seems to be the problem with Aviceena, a great doctor unit but cheaper options are available.
     
  12. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    We'll see how s/he's going to look like in N4.

    Seems that the N4 equivalent of Akbar Doctor (i.e. the ability to restore 2W per use of the Doctor skill) is not going to be limited to Haqqislam, so I expect to see our edge in medicine to be represented in some other way. What does that mean for Avicenna, I don't even try to predict.
     
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  13. Koval

    Koval Well-Known Member

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    Akbar doctor wasn't really our edge in medicine in N3, since it was limited to one troop. Succeeding on a 17 or 18 was, and I imagine still will be in N4. As for Avicenna, on top of a WIP 15 doctor plus, which you admittedly can get for 18 points now on vanilla/Ramah, she gets a WIP 15 flash pulse (also on Rouhani) 6-2 move, and NWI. So you are getting a fair bit for what you're paying over a ghulam doctor, just not necessarily things you want.
     
  14. Firellon

    Firellon Optimising underdogs

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    You are right, a lot of the people will be the same from link to link. This update brings so many wildcards filling so many roles in HB, the actual core infantry of the link looks like a pure matter of preference.
    While in the past you would be choosing what wildcards do you want to put into your core team, now you're choosing what core link team you want to put into your wildcards.
    And that build down to filling in the missing roles and optimising the costs, of course.

    For example, if you want a defensive link team, you're more likely to skip on Asawira and Yara since they are relatively short-ranged, but you would definitely want a Doctor to heal your ARO pieces back up, as well some weaponry that can hold up to greater distances like Missile Launcher and Sniper rifle, as well as cheap fillers. In that case, it would be very easy to bring something like this:
    - Ghulam Sniper
    - Ghulam Missile Launcher
    - Ghulam Doctor
    - Ghulam Lt / Decoy
    - Barid Killer Hacker (access to remotes, a pitcher in a link team, very cheap)
    It's not very different from a typical ghulam-only link team, and does not bring anything special besides linked hacker. It is very affordable and allows a good, efficient order battery as well. And while Lasiqs and Govads can do the job of defensive link team as well, that would mean effectively doubling it's cost while only improving it's efficiency just a little bit:
    - Govad Sniper
    - Govad Missille Launcher / Muyib HRL X-Visor (if we want a template and reduce the costs a bit)
    - Muyib Doctor
    - Govad Lt / Decoy
    - Leila - because cheaper than govads, but more expensive than Barids
    Or, alternatively, with Lasiqs:
    - Lasiq Viral Sniper
    - Lasiq Viral Sniper / Muyib HRL X-Visor (if we want a template and reduce the costs a bit)
    - Muyib Doctor
    - Muyib Minelayer / Regular Muyib Lt decoy
    - Leila

    Now, is it really worth it for that kind of price if you're planning to stay in your DZ anyway?

    On the other hand, offensive link teams are much more interesting, and allow you to leverage Yara's Strategic Deployment and AP Marksman MSV2, as well as muyib LGL smoke/specfire, as well as Asawira Spitfire just for reliable muscle (and BS17 on 5 dice is pretty damn good). Since you'd probably want those three every single time just for sheer goodness and synergy of it, the roles left to fill are:
    1. Doctor (and we need a specialist in this link team anyway)
    2. Close quaarters combat that happens within 8 inches + direct templates to fend off markers and vis mod guys
    3. Offensive hacker to have extra ways to deal with HI's, TAGs and Hackers that may want to isolate our Asawira
    4. Some cheap link filler just to keep the costs down

    What are our options here with Ghulams?
    1. Ghulam Doctor - super cheap and efficient
    2. Regular Ghulam with rifle/light shotgun - cheap and covers close range (as no-one else has the shotgun in the team)
    3. Barid Killer/Assault hacker with pitcher - cheap and brings extra utility and ability to fry enemy hackers
    4. Regular Ghulam for 12 pts - the cheapest filler in the army
    Seems pretty solid in my book, since with this kind of cost you can also easily have a plenty of backup guys hanging around to fill in the team when someone dies.

    What about Govads?
    1. Muyib Doctor - expensive wildcard that does the same as Ghulam Doctor for 11 pts more
    2. Regular Govad with rifle/light shotgun, again, very similar to Ghulam, but a bit better against midfield skirmishers (but you'd be hitting on like 17s with the Ghulam anyway)
    3. Leila - more expensive, lacks pitcher, can work as a backup Shock shooter; OR Govad Killer Hacker with Boarding shotgun that can cover (2) as well. Could be interesting, although it's quite expensive
    4. Leila's the "cheapest", followed by a regular Govad - all going in early 20 points

    It's probably going to be about 20-30 points more with this core, and harder to get member replacements as well, but if you desperately need MSV1 and Veterans for some reason (I dunno, fighting Jammers?), it could work. The strength of Govads, is in linked MSV1 HMG on BS15, but Yara alleviates the need for that with her Strategic Deployment, and between her (+ smoke) and Asawira you would have that role covered pretty well.

    Finally, Lasiqs:
    1. Muyib Doctor, again
    2. Regular Lasiq with viral rifle+light shotgun. Can go for Muyib Minelayer alternatively, for some extra utility.
    3. Leila again, no alternative hacker at all. No pitcher either. Sadness.
    4. Leila followed by HRL Muyib or regular Muyib, not very cheap at all

    With Lasiqs, you would have to drop quite some utility and flexibility in exchange for a mimetic Viral rifle. It could be sometimes better than Asawira Spitfire if shooting people with high ARM, low BTS, and Lasiq himself can be good at shooting people on the roofs since he has C+, but is it really worth all the extra cost? I guess, in an offensive capacity a case could be made for Govads and Lasiqs, but there are quite some sacrifices you have to make.

    Side note: you could try getting an extra Lasiq with Viral sniper rifle into the team to deploy in the back, overwatch the table and die - and then switch to a regular Lasiq forward deployed properly after that happens, as some people suggested earlier in the thread. Not sure how well would that work, though.

    I hope that makes Ghulams's case way more appealing, as it should be quite apparent now that they are the best candidates to be a core link put into your wildcards.

    Update: I just realised you can have Asawira Boarding Shotgun (with Doctor Plus) wildcarding in your link team to fill in both (1) and (2) on a tough and reliable platform. While its is expensive, in some cases it could be worth it, since Asawira is way less likely to die to some random crits from a Camo inflitrator than any light infantry already discussed, as well as survive direct templates, mines, crazy koalas and other stuff that someone needs to take care of. Could as well be him.
     
    #34 Firellon, Sep 7, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  15. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    On a side note, what is it with HB and nigh-obligatory named characters? :P
     
  16. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this is what N4 bring to us. It looks like a good change for everyone. You will made the link in order your style more than the mission or the enemy in front of you. As a hassasin player I'am more than pleased with what Corvus has showed us until now about hassasin, of course, but I wait this will not something only hassasin recives. So we will see, we will see.

    And about a CORE, a lot have to change the muyib fireteam for me to change it for other, but maybe now I can diverse more the other list, if the two options in ITS still exists in Season xii...!!! :D
     
  17. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Especially since HB is supposed to be the sectorial of faceless, anonymous murder. There's some line the fluff about the masks representing the last thing the victim sees and that's supposed to be scarier or something.
     
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  18. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Interesting. I would have said the opposite: if using a defensive fireteam, keep the doctor out of the link so that she can have a helper bot. Either the doctor or the bot deploys next to the ARO piece in the link, and the other covers a different part of the table. Whereas with an active link, you want the doctor in the link so that she follows them as they move around, and is in position to heal them when the time comes.

    But otherwise, I agree with you. HB has never had a good ARO core, and the update doesn't add one. All the new wildcards work in an active core, but add nothing to a defensive one. For a defensive core, your best bet would still just be 4 Ghulams and Leila, which has never been that great.

    That said, as discussed earlier in the thread, there's some appeal to an active Ghulam/wildcard core, with added Ghulam sniper in the list. If you go second, have the sniper linked with 4 of the others for ARO, then on your first turn, reform the link around the 5 actual members you plan to use.
     
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  19. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    Leila Sharif is supposed to be a generic pseudonym for Haqq spies. Like an CIA agent calling themselves John Doe.
     
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  20. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Can't really dispute that. Still, we had both Doctor Plus effectively faction-wide (save for Kaplan Doc), and the sole Akbar D
    I always wondered why Avicena doesn't have Akbar Doc. I mean, if not Avicenna, then who...?

    Keeping Doc Plus in N4 is, IMO, to be expected. Mechanically it is very simple (just slap a Doctor +3 mod faction-wide...), and I see no reason fluff-wide to not have it.
    Especially if equivalents to Akbar Doc spill over to other factions. As did some other abilities and weapons that were once unique to Haqq.
     
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