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Infinity Faction Longevity

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Arschbombe, Aug 25, 2020.

  1. Arschbombe

    Arschbombe Well-Known Member

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    Hi, new player here wondering about the life cycle of factions in Infinity. I am curious because in the threads I'm reading about N4 and the new releases I see discussion about which factions will get cut to make room for the new sectorials. For example, CB have announced and shown profiles for the new Ариадна космофлот and I see others asking if the Caledonians or Merovingians are getting cut. Similarly I see references to Spiral Corpse as a faction heading to the chopping block.

    So this leads to the question: how long does a sectorial army stick around before getting squatted on average?

    How much does losing a sectorial like this hurt given the amount of overlap between sectorials in a given faction?

    For reference I'm coming at this from a ex-GW perspective where only a few factions have ever been truly squatted though many have languished for years.
    So I'm trying to figure out which sectorials are safe bets going forward. I understand that the primary factions in code one are safe, but I am not terribly attracted to any of them.
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    CB doesn't remove factions from the game, though it has put certain model ranges out of production.

    For example, Merovingia, Qapu Khaqi, Neoterra, Acontecimento, and non-Spiral Tohaa have been removed from the product catalogue over the past several years, but all are still in the game and even got small rules updates upon their retirement.

    These factions won't be in N4 on launch, but their current plan is to add them by the end of the year.
     
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  3. bloodw4ke

    bloodw4ke Well-Known Member

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    Which faction are you interested in?
     
  4. Arschbombe

    Arschbombe Well-Known Member

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    So far Aleph, Ariadna and JSA look appealing. I understand that JSA is more geared to close combat and harder to use well. It also seems to have a bit of a reputation as a noob trap from what I have been able to gather. Ariadna appeals because of the Russian-ness. I'm not interested in the French, Scots, or US elements. I like the idea of Aleph, but I am wondering about the imminent "demise" of SP, but I don't know if that's actually a big deal or not.
     
  5. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    JSA and the Russians aren't going anywhere, Ariadna is also getting Kosmoflot, a new Sectorial, with N4 that brings together the factions into a kind of spaceborne Expeditionary Corps.

    Aleph OSS isn't going anywhere either, Steel Phalanx has a lot of older models, though many might stick around due to being in other factions (like Andromeda and Hector).

    I'd recommend taking a look at Operation Coldfront and Beyond, the rules included in the box are going to be out of date soon as it was an N3 box, but it provides good starting collections for both Ariadna/TAK, and Aleph/OSS.
     
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  6. nazroth

    nazroth 'well known Nomad agitator'

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    First and foremost Infinity is nothing like a GW's game. GW business model is: Release hot OP new stuff, nerf it after a while when everybody already purchased it, make it obsolete by introducing new, more op stuff in a year. Turn tables upside down with new edition. Start again. GW is literally milking their most dedicated customers dry.
    Infinity is nothing like this. Sure CB is relying on whales and long term fans to get all the new stuff, but here's where similarities end. Some armies (sectorials) are here since the very beginning. Those, that got cut are still here - just hibernating. They are still tournament legal, still fully playable. It is only the miniatures that ceased to be produced.
    There's just that much stuff that a hobby store can support at a time. That being said: Tohaa, Merovingian, Caledonia, Acontencimento, Neoterra, - all got suspended. You can still play them. You can use the awesome Proxy rule to use different miniatures to play these armies if you can't get originals. It is even tournament legal, as long as you use CB miniatures, that are properly sized and equipped.

    Worth noting is that when an army is put to a freezer - it means a new release is for the faction is imminent and that the frozen sectorial will come back refreshed and updated at some point in the distant future.

    My opinion is: CB wants to "close" some chapters. Fully release new sectorials and move on to other exciting stuff, including revisiting old sectorials. It makes sense.
     
  7. Arschbombe

    Arschbombe Well-Known Member

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    I totally get that. All one has to do is watch one video with Carlos.

    I understand that. I see similar discussions about SKUs in the X-Wing community too.

    I was just a little concerned about some of the discussions I've seen here talking about which sectorials get put on ice as you put it. Being new not having any context for how often it happens and how impactful it is when it does.
     
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  8. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    There's no real rule around it, but one can make some educated assumptions based on the age of an army's major releases, and their importance in the *current day* fluff (important to note that we can't judge this very well at the moment because N4 is jumping the timeline ahead a bit).
     
  9. AmPm

    AmPm Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to worry about Aleph OSS or Ariadna TAK going anywhere, both are the poster children for their faction.
     
  10. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

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    None of the "vanilla" factions will get squatted. Some temporary mothballing (Brettonian treatment) of sectoral but as said above, they remain playable and valid for all games
     
  11. Sergej Faehrlich

    Sergej Faehrlich Well-Known Member
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    That's one issue wih the terminology here in the forum: those mentioned sectorials have (and will) never been cut from the game. I rather see them like finished projects. They each offer a unique playstyle... this is "preserved" and therefore frozen...pretty much for the rest of the time being. It has to be said that some of these sectorials have been around since Campaign Paradiso N2 which was release in 2012...so that's quite some time. CB has only once really cut units from the game but that is not bound to happen again.

    Their miniature range will not be inretail anymore, but that shouldn't really be a problem as well as there are plenty of second hand armies available and there is always the option to proxy. I just sold a full and painted collection of FRRM for a fair price. It is probable that discontinued armies will get some rules updates in the future, while for the most part they are still competitive.

    I guess that's athing with this forum: while there is plenty of good infos in here, at some point language gets a little too expressive (like "chopping block") and can be misleading. There is no reason to skip any army for fear of it being cut from the game. And as a side note: I don't even know anyone getting deeper into the game, who stuck to only one faction...at some point most people will try something else as well :D
     
  12. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    I play Bakunin. My sectorial was last changed in 2016. I'll sit in the fridge for as long as it takes.
     
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  13. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know, actually knows for certain - this army removal stuff is new and scary. No army has been 'cut' long enough for us to see the real effects. The first army change was a few years back when JSA left Yu Jing and became its own faction, though I don't know if that is representative. I believe space France is already cut from Ariadna in a recent time frame, and the result has been "one final change to the army and then no more, models no longer for sale, profiles remain available to vanilla faction (JSA aside)". Whether any of those are permanent features long term we don't know.

    Regarding specific questions; there is no 'average' squat time as this is new, 'lost' sectorials are still playable and should be playable long term/permanently but experience so far suggests that they will slowly get out of date, I'm uncertain as to what impact sectorial loss has on the vanilla faction (profile cuts etc).

    Would be great if someone could clarify the things we actually do know. I see statements like "the sectorial will return new and refreshed in the future", but that has never actually happened yet and seems like a platitude to me. Maybe I'm just salty because Tohaa delet

    My biggest question is what will happen to profiles within the larger vanilla faction, particularly profiles that don't port over to a new army like many French and Scotts stuff in Kosmoflot. Will Ariadna still be able to take Chausseur or Galwegians two years from now? It's not the biggest issue in the world due to the sweet proxy rules, but it would be nice to be clear on that. If CB has posted regarding that fact then I've missed it!
     
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  14. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    They're not cutting armies, the JSA Secession is a special case and something they'd wanted to do for a decade. Like you say sectorials tend to get an update when their miniatures are removed from the catalogue, and sometimes at additional updates later (like QK getting Wild Bill).

    Merovingia was the first faction to have it's models discontinued about two years ago. Though it's worth noting that the new Chasseur and Mirage-5 are still in production. They got a update at that time adding Haris teams to Loup-Garou and Briscards, and the mixed Moblot/Metro Fireteam. Since then they've also gained the HMG Anaconda profile and the Motorised 112.
    Corvus Belli have officially stated (from Gutier, Bostria, and Belen) that they're committed to keeping all factions playable. Most recently Bostria re-comitted to it during an interview with the White Noise podcast last week.

    There will be a delay in adding the out of production factions to N4 (FRRM, QK, NCA, SAA, non-Spiral Tohaa) but they've committed to adding them back by the end of the year. This was communicated by Belen (their head of marketing) earlier this year on the forums and via their social media channels.

    See above, not everything might be available on N4 launch (though Chasseurs have a model still in production so they're 99% certain) but will be added by end of year.

    Bostria did say during an interview with Mayacast in March that they planned to return an out of production sectorial during 2021, though admittedly before Covidgeddon, so I don't know if that plan has slipped or not.
     
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  15. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    I first looked at Infinity in N1 and have seen most of the evolution of the game. A couple points in general. They use the data compiled from the Army builder which is integrated in the tournament system to actually track what is actively being played. In general they only retire\park things that are not being played played often.

    ---

    Brief history:

    I really started playing in N2 and back then the there was only Vanilla factions, and virtually every type of play style was available in every faction. But some did it better than others, while one faction might not get a play style (Nomads had the best hacking while Adrianna had none, all other factions had something). Eventually they hit a limit of what they could bring out without giving everyone everything.

    Then they introduced Sectorals and linked teams to add new flavor to the game. IT also increased the availability of model in sectorals. At that time fireteams didn't mix (QK was an exception) and some Haris teams existed. I forget if this was N3 or still in N2.

    They then introduced Tohaa as a 'different' faction and made special rules. It had a different style which was its own.

    At this point they announced they that they were reducing SKUs. Mostly combining blisters of single figs into blisters of 2 models. They also retired\parked Shasvastii and Merovingienne. Due to lack of play and the old shasvastii models where not that great. The rules still existbut the models don't get produced.

    Then came what I'm going to call N3.5 when the NA2 sectorals came out. This is when they did large overhaul to the sectoral and made a couple new sectorals and introduced mixed fireteams & wildcards. Also started introducing a lot of new sectorals. The biggest change to existing factions was that the JSA secotral which was a part of YJ (main faction) which now became NA2 (main faction) and could no longer be used in YJ Vanilla armies.

    Then they re-released Shasvastii. With a whole new model design, with a N3.5 overhaul.

    Retired\parked QK & Tohaa.. *Personal opinion*: This is a mistake, when N3.5 came out they where the only faction that didn't get a boost, since they already had wild cards. This in turn dropped their frequency of play. But CB used the data from their system and saw it as one of the least desirable and made the decision to drop their SKUs, which included one of their best sculpts to date, the az'rail. I really hope its still playable in N4. *end of opinion*. The Tohaa got retired and the aliens sort of got transformed into Spiral corps (Na2). I believe that was just to eliminate the need to translate the special rules into N4.

    On going they have frequently re-sculpted models to a new high standard. I personally hit a point were I had a HB force in duplicate just because all the models got redone. I ended up giving it away as a secret santa gift at out LGS infinity group.

    ---

    Basically CB keeps introducing new rules to give them design options and keep thing interesting, and eliminated SKUs based on production needs and eliminated the least played options. One aspect they've mention before is that some models never get used because another is cheaper and fills the same role. This is is a hurdle for the designed since they need to make new profiles more efficient to be played over existing. With N4 they are adding the 15 model cap they trying to move the meta away from cheap swarms to higher point value models.

    Note: I based the history on what I recall. If I missed anything please comment.
     
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  16. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Are there any rules that're in Tohaa but not Spiral Corps? Seems to me they're still going to update FT: Triad, Symbiont Armour, Symbiomates/bombs, etc for Spiral.
     
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  17. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    To be honest, I havn't looked at spiral Corp. I sort of assumed. No one in my LGS plays them.
     
  18. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    I think the Taqeul's Symbio Bugs are the only thing, and they are just perimeter weapons really, everything else is in spiral.
     
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  19. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    What @WiT? says is still correct. So far we only know what CB promises since we have not seen a single army return. At this point it does not mean much because no army has been gone for a long enough time to actually need a return. We simply do not know how things will turn out in reality and it is for everyone themselves to decide what to belive right now.

    Were Tohaa really not played? To be honest i have not been to single tournament without 2-3 Tohaa players but that might be just based on local meta.
     
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  20. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    I ran a big poll on faction popularity usage on FB recently (794 people voted, multiple factions could be ticked), and Tohaa were the least-played by a large margin. But given that it’s a recent poll, it’s hard to know how much that is a result of the models being discontinued.

    EDIT - people were asked to tick all factions they'd played in the last year.

    E98192B5-63E6-472F-BF10-3A68B3534FDC.jpeg
     
    #20 ijw, Aug 31, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2020
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