I'm going to try to get to everything, and hope I dont miss anything. Hortlak SMG: i would definitely take him if you're running a Janissary core. My typical "Janissary" core would only include one or two actual Janissaries, supplement by Hortlaks and characters. I've tried using the chain of command profile as a solo specialist, but didn't feel he was worth it. The sniper did make a decent solo piece, though. Zhayedan: I would say that the most likely change for them going into N4, other than points shuffling, is their automedkits changing to rolling automatically at the start of the turn. Their low PH will keep that from being too good, but it will still give them a unique feel. As for N3, have you considered using them as Mukhtar proxies? Some of the big guns dont work, but I usually run either a duo of red fury/doctor or a haris of red fury/viral rifle/doctor. The biggest stretch you would have to do there is calling the HMG a red fury. Mukhtar: I personally like it, but I could see how it feels like its moving away from Haqq. I've heard it said that it looks more like a Nomad model, and I can see that. Nahab: I would just say not the boarding shotgun, unless you're trying to do something very specific. If you're just looking to attack, I'd take the red fury. If you're also looking to push buttons, then take the KHD. That's not to say that the KHD cant attack, of course.
@infyrana - I'm also looking forward to the Shakush miniature :) About the rest - I played RTF for a while and only used Hortlaks few time, with Janissaries fireteam. It's very good - but mostly for being a pain-train, a hard ARO group. Hortlak Sniper shines the most in that role. Still I'm not buying the new minis, I converted old N2 AzRa'ils for them to fit better in scale with one old Jan AP Rifle and Jan HMG. About Zhayedans - I've use sniper and breaker rifle in Vanilla Haqq with some successes. Especially the breaker one was a good hunter-killer unit, able to outshoot and destroy many threats, even the tougher ones. Still I didn't use any Zhayedan in RTF - it's hard for them to compete against Mukhtars, Khawarij et cetera, especially when you can mix Khawa with Ghulams... I hope N4 will make Zhayedans better, because I really like their minis. I definitely suggest to try Carmen in RTF - she was one of the units I took almost always. Great combination of stats and abilities, very dangerous in CC (destroyed few heavies in my games, even won a fight against Achilles). Wild Bill - only used once in Janissary link. I think he's interesting, kind of stepping on Zhayedans toes (sadly for them ;) ). Hakims - used in Vanilla, never in RTF - they definitely loose in comparison with Nahabs, who also can be a button pusher, but also are better shooters, CC fighters, have NWI et cetera. And I definitely recommend Nahabs. KHD is wonderfull for killing enemies up close and scoring missions, and Red Fury is great for pure destroying enemies. Used them in RTF and using them in Vanilla. At first I wasn't a fan of their minis, but live they look cool and now I like them a lot (I'm painting them, or rather I was painting them and now they're waiting for continuation, when my little baby will give some free time and the strenght to focus ;) ). The same with Mukhtars - great unit. Used Viral rifle, used FO, and - of course - used Red Fury. I highly recommend them. But I also dislike their concept and the mini we saw... They don't look like a Haqqislam unit - closer to Nomads, what already been said even here. Fugly as hell :P That's why I'm ignoring this mini and using new Tuaregs as them. They fit the style of Haqq/RTF very good and Mukhtars in robes and turbans look like I think they should look. PozdRawiam / Greetings
Well, my old 2ed Azra'ils went to become Riot Boyz for my StarCo, but apart form that - yup, Hortlaks in a Janissary Core do fine. My own opinion on Wild Bill, however, is that he doesn't work in a Janissary Core - his forte is close-in gunfighting, and Janissaries do that just fine with their LSGs. However, Wild Bill in a (QK) Kaplan Haris - now we're talking: he brings them an edge in close-in the Kaplans themselves do lack.
I use Odalisque models as Mukhtar proxies. To me they look like exactly what the Mukhtar is supposed to be: unarmored, fast, and badass due to their mutant powers rather than hi-tech equipment. I hate the actual Mukhtar design like... ok I'm gonna stop, I've done this rant more than once already.
While I can understeand your position, effendi, having actually painted a Mukhtar I must say I have warmed up to the model a bit. While he's certainly not stellar, and could've been both designed and executed way better, he isn't tragic.
I recognize that I'm in the minority here, but I actual like the Mukhtar sculpt. Though I also prefer the rifle Nahab to the spitfire one.
Thank you all for your responses, very much appreciated! I didn't want to run the Janissaries core in RTF as I don't own the models (my Mobile Brigada would be Ok proxies though). So given the suggestions to run Hortlak in their core, it might be wise to pop the Hortlak low on my purchase radar for now. @Koval Not a bad idea on proxying the Zhayedan as Mukhtar, though I was actually thinking to use the Zhayedan as proxies for Ghulam's in HB if not. I can't paint ghulam open faces for toffee and as I don't own their boxset special weapons, it could be an option! I too hope they get a boost in N4. The Mukhtar definitely appears more like Nomads than Haqq. Maybe the Ayyar could proxy better for Mukhtar's then until they bring out other variants. @Papa Bey Despite the super tiny heads of the older Haqq models versus the newer models, it's their aesthetics (outfits and poses) which I prefer and keep my interest! But I won't disparage anyone else from the models I dislike - there's room for everyone to enjoy something out there :D
I will add that I actually enjoy the Hortlak CoC as a solo piece. I've had more success with him solo than anything else. Even in a jan link, de did more work once the link broke than the other 4 janissaries with him. I was using the nahab khd with the hortlak with success. I've yet to try the red fury nahab but I've gotten the BSG guy to do work as either a piece to punch a hole through a defense or just trade with a strong aro piece.
Nahab and Muhktar are all stars. I use Bashi Bazouks to proxy for Nahab and Khawarijs or Odalisques for Mukhtars - neither of their official models do anything for me.
They came from... Behind! ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17) GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 37) NAHAB (Specialist Operative) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 30) NAHAB Red Fury, Nanopulser / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon, Knife. (1 | 36) GHULAM (NCO) Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke Ammo.) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 16) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) GROUP 2 4 1 TUAREG Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33) NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) NAHAB Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Submachine Gun + E/Mitter, Nanopulser / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 30) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Speaking of Nahabs, this is probably my favorite RTF list I have played. I have used this particular list in a ton of scenarios as tournament prep (Which never happened... Curse you COVID). It has usually exceeded my expectations, even after playing repeat opponents aware of the shenanigans. This list also had a variant taking away the Taureg and RF Nahab to get the whole Muhktar Haris.
Messing around with Janissaries for the end of N4 is making me realize just how good of an ARO piece the linked Hortlak sniper is. He can completely dominate a board, and the change to MSV1 will only make him better. The actual Janissaries, I'm not sold on.
Oooh youre right, msv1 changes really help the hortlak. Ive always wanted to run a double hortlak sniper link and just dominate the board with aro fire. Unfortunately between Covid, me moving even further from the only store that has infinity regulars (was a 40ish minute drive, might be over an hour now with traffic), and 9th ed 40k dropping ive got nobody to play. But back to Rama, after seeing more releases and learning of points drops im expecting to see Namurr go down a fair chunk. 5 to 10 per profile, or gain a buff or 2. AP spitfire is the new hotness i see going around, and it would fit the namurr very well.
I'm not that sold on that "big change" for MSV1. It's good ofcourse, that Hortlaks will have LoF through smoke to some warbands et cetera, but I don't see shooting through smoke at -6 as something great. Now, in N3, every victim of attack from smoke can react with shooting at -6, so if MSV has the same mod then it's rather unappealing. And it a bit agaist the logic of mods in Infinity, where the levels of abilities or range usually go from +3 to 0 and to -3. So it would fit this logic with having MSV1 with -3 to shoot through smoke, MSV2 with mod 0. Still - I really like Hortlaks and hope to use them in N4. I've played one tournament and another campaign game using Jans/Hortlaks fireteam (Sniper and SMG), my results weren't too good, yet the Hortlaks did good job. Especially that they were facing tough and heavy enemies, for example Avatar (killed in ARO by the fireteam) or Achilles (killed in ARO by lucky Total Reaction, yet the Fireteam scared him and made him change his gameplan). I used Fireteam of only HI and it was expensive, yet we can make it cheaper with Wild Bill, Leila et cetera. And about Namurrs - yes, yes, I already wrote this in different threads, I'm really looking forward to some points discounts for them, especially when looking at the new Nomad cheap EVAs, climbing specialists with high stats and great skillset. PozdRawiam / Greetings
The big limitation of the -6 is that it doesn't protect you against an opponent with MSV2 shooting you through smoke. Like you said, the models hasn't changed. But one issue I've had with the Hortlak sniper was with opponents being able to to just use smoke to walk right past him. Even at a -6, that won't be possible in N4. The team is expensive, and that may be part of why you didn't do well with the list overall. I'm definitely winning less than I usually do with them. But, as far as HI cores go, they seem to be on the cheap end with everything you can sneak in there. I've been able to sneak in a full Mukhtar haris or even Maggie, though without much else beyond that. I've had the most success with just taking the expensive core, a doctor to back them up, and 4 other strong pieces. I'm really hoping for a better Namurr. Conceptually, it's exactly what I want Ramah to be about. But it just didn't come together in N3. But I also dont think that just keeping it as-is and making it a little cheaper, in a context where every other model in the same range is also ferring cheaper, would be enough. Looking forward, I'm also concerned about Khawarij. I'd like to want to take them as a standalone team, rather than just one or two in a core of cheaper models. Being closer in points to a Ghulam would make that more appealing, for sure. But the changes to super jump in Code One were awful, to the point where a basic use for it they even have an example for wouldn't be legal.
Hmm things id like to see improved in rama. Namurr: points drop, ap rifle and ap spitfire, cc boost to 20. I feel like with this, namurr retains their durable swiss army knife flexibility, but their offensive role becomes more defined as our anti heavy armor soldier with cc20 emccw and ap weapons and emarat. Khawarij: idk how fat2 will change, but id like to see cc21 to give their cc that little edge theyve been missinh to help deal with chaff and cc defensive units better. Mukhtars: honestly im fine if they dont change, but i did say before id like 6-4 move. But thats more for thematic reasons. Hortlaks: give me non linkable fd2 smg profile please, or even just make them 6-2 mov would be very nice. Otherwise to me their only reason to exist is fireteam discount (sniper profile excluded). Nahabs: hmm idk they feel fine too, just give me better posed models. The female nahab is my fave but the pose of the model is really trash. Worse than the mukhtar pose imo. Hakims: just, give them akbar doc, their name is literally doctors, that and fix regen. Zhayedans: mixed bag here, id say fix automed, and give them all mml2 inherently, just pull or modify any profile that would be too OP. Or cost them properly. Idc just make them a decent option besides the breaker rifle profile. I feel like everything else seems fine to me as far as i can remember. But im open to hearing others thoughts.
I agree, but I'd also like WiP 15 - make them THE specialists. I'd go with Natural Born Warrior on every Khawarij, including Tarik. And FAT1 on them (only Tarik FAT2). They should see some slight point drop, comparing to the other stuff we've seen. For me the sniper makes sense, but the SMG is just cheaper fireteam member. I was very unpleased seeing the models first time, but the more I looked at them, the more potential I saw. And after buying the box I'm really happy with them - especially the KHD. Yet I had to convert the girl, without my typical cutting, just bending - and she looks alright now :) I've accepted them without Akbar, sadly. But give it to Rahman The Man! TBH I don't think that ANY burst 4 weapon should have MML2. Specnaz and Zhay included. But our immortals definitely need some boost. PozdRawiam / Greetings[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE] Nice, i dig the conversion. Or i guess its more of a simple fix bit it looks good. I was planning to just swap torso and legs with the others (if its possible without cutting them in half). Wondering if anyone has tried to fix the mukhtar pose? I think if i could just replace the medi-dart gun with his hand on a rock or something more "superhero landing" style then ill be fine with it.
