Is the 15 unit limit a good design choice?

I met a very similar list at an ITS event in PL when Varuna got released. There were two Kamau Snipers in dat link though, and support stretched to Tech-Bee, Warcor and other stuff. I don't see why wouldn't we see this kind of lists in N4. Depends on meta. You give players stuff that violate balance between points cost and power level, abusing standard game mechanics - they will use it. Simple as that.

 

sorry i meant SAA. they had a bunch or their sectorial units sculptured such as their regulars and bagh mari then shut down not long after

 

What am I missing about this list that provoked the bad reactions from @Mahtamori and @fari? I thought variations where the cutter was a grenade lobbing Squalo were already common.

 

That list is pretty standard for what I've been running into since varuna dropped. Would much rather face that then 20+ orders and markers on the table!

As an aside, can the people who insist on dunking on nuada go find something else to do? Theres nothing productive to be gained by doing it and that type of shit is why so many people avoid this place like the fucking plague

 

It's got all the high points of Varuna (mainly a whole bunch of Helots and ZC to make life miserable) and a strong TAG that is going to be very difficult to dislodge in N4.

 

I dont have tools (and motivation) to deal with that with my CHA

 

Because balancing Helots (and other offenders) point costs was too much work, much better to just enforce 15 order lists. But who knows, maybe Helots are 15 points in N4.

 

I would like to play against that list with my overpowered usarf 16+ order lists to see how hard it destroys them all in the table.

 

It's a perfectly good list, but it has plenty of weaknesses to offset its strengths. I don't see that it's stronger than any other list with a linked Kamau.

 

Yeah, I mean I've seen plenty of VIRD lists featuring 3 linked Kamau snipers backed up with ZC. That's a pretty standard TAG list (though downgrading the machinist so you can take a Fusi paramedic would be better IMO, Kamau are shock immune for a reason!), it's lacking in hacking protection so maybe that's the problem, people who don't want to take hackers would have to brute force a Cutter or throw DTW wielding warbands its way.

 

Oh, yeah, my factions in Ariadna and Tohaa are absolutely equipped to abuse that deficiency, so I'll do that... oh, wait. I have no good hackers to speak of. An Ariadnan 19pts SWC 1 Wardriver might get close enough to get off a single shot of dmg 15 vs BTS 6 on that Cutter (Blackout) after passing a WIP13 test. That's (0.65x0.45)=29% chance of success IF I even manage to get into position.

If it's under Firewall from a competent counterhacker, then it's even worse, I have to pass WIP10 and they defend dmg 15 vs BTS9. That's (0.5x0.3)=15%. Great odds, lads.

In Tohaa I only have a KHD hacker, with SWORD-2, so I can't even attack the bloody Cutter.

And my throwaway warbands just got a double nerf between smoke+msv1 and the 15 Order limit. Yay.

 

As a long time tohaa player who has played extensively against the Cutter I can say I do not fear it at all. It is one of the least scary list skews I can think of.

But, my main answer to it has been bodies and orders. Flamers locking down avenues of approach, smoke, fire and CC killing it dead. Generally thats been my answer for all TAGs but the Cutter in particular. I guess now we'll be leaning on the K1 Sukuel or possibly just brute force weight of dice from an HMG Sukuel. That will be worse without crits but frankly thats a small price to pay to take the old crit mechanic out of the game.

Does annoy me that the Tohaa approach to the meta is shifting from Makaul & Sukuel to just Sukuel but what can you say, they designed themselves into a corner with this faction lol.

 

Can someone confirm or deny this statement (It seems original poster ignored my previous question)? I can't find any information regarding this information and it bothers me immensely. Sorry for the offtopic, I don't want to create whole new thread.

 

There's as much hyperbole as fact in that statement. The Vanilla only Tohaa models were retired from production when Spiral Corps launched ~18 months ago. Its also to be noted that the majority of Tohaa specific rules like Symbiont Armour, Symbiomates/bombs, Pheroware, etc also feature in Spiral Corps which is an "active" faction and will therefore be in N4 from launch.

 

But "literally said"...oookey, got it, thanks.

 

I don't have the spoons to dig for it, but yes, I recall a quote from @HellLois I think. Probably in the huge "end of Tohaa" thread. It was a statement that the directly replied to another user who asked why Tohaa are being completely removed after N3 and the reply was that they do not fit the new design paradigm or something to that effect. Could've been @Koni - I don't think other CB people spoke up on design much and I think it wasn't touched upon by Belen.

 

Thanks for reply! I thought it was said in one of the videos or seminars.

 

wait, what?? I never said that, and I dont think any of the CB team said that xD

 

Are you saying Nuada misconstrued, misinterpreted and generally misrepresented CB's position?
That would be highly uncharacteristic of them...

 

Im saying that the arguement is not that, not talking about the CB Position ;) not the same :D