1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Is the 15 unit limit a good design choice?

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by redeemer, Aug 16, 2020.

?

is the 15 unit limit for ITS rule a good change or not

  1. yes

    147 vote(s)
    81.2%
  2. no

    34 vote(s)
    18.8%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    851
    Way to add to the discussion right there. Take a step back and consider if you honestly think that.
     
    Cthulhu363 and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  2. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Ava is a lore thing...except for when CB uses it to put limits, the same way they did with some arbitrary SWC
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    Lore is (often? always?) created after unit design a lot of the time (see Taowu article) so it isn't the lore that informs what AVA a unit has, it is the other way around.
     
    Nuada Airgetlam likes this.
  4. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    3,019
    CB literally said this was the reason for dropping Tohaa - because it didn't fit what they planned for N4 and they had no good ideas how to remake it for N4.

    Now all signs are pointing at Caledonia getting dropped next, the "many Orders" faction. Old models do not help. USARF is fairly complete as far as releases are concerned, so it's in danger of being dropped as well. MRRF already got dropped.

    So, what's left? Vanilla and TAK. Kosmoflot is such a hodge podge of profiles that it could (and probably should) have been an N2 thing instead of a sectorial.

    Ariadna is the low-tech standout from all of the rest of the setting, their playstyle was just limited. It's very possible that Camo spam will turn out to be as much of a problem with limited Orders now. Will this get taken away as well? Camo nerfed?

    What's left of Ariadna then? How unlikely is the army to be dropped then and Kosmo being NA2 like Spiral is for Tohaa?
     
    redeemer likes this.
  5. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    3,019
    Fair points.
     
  6. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    eeem... no? most of the units were first created by lore, then they put in context and lastly they try them to fix in rules. Still at the moment, lots of units (not only characters) were created in the rpg games of the staff. Of course there will be units with profiles created before their lore, specially in the new units, but I doubt they are more than the old way ones, and of course, not allways
     
    theradrussian likes this.
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    I only have two articles to go by which says they create a unit based on what the faction needs and then try to fit the fluff in around that and haven't seen anything suggesting this is not their normal modus operandi.

    But that's besides the point as there's nothing that says they can't adjust an AVA T down to AVA 4 or advance the story by introducing internal faction rivalries that makes people from unit X refuse to work with people from unit Y in order to limit access to certain units. Buuuuut on the other hand they might not want to build the game entirely around the "standard" so that creating more wacky "unlimited" lists become impossible.
     
  8. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    2,443
    How can you honestly wonder about the future of Ariadna when they have FIVE Sectorials while the rest of the main factions have 2 or 3?
     
    AdmiralJCJF, Lesh' and theradrussian like this.
  9. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    there have been some videos in where they explain the process "gutier has an idea of a unit, creates their lore, then they put in the game". But I think that sometimes, it can go the other way. And as I say, there have been a lot of examples of first lore, then rules.

    About the AVA from T to 4. I think that is something they decided on time ago. In the beta (or prior N1, as you wish to call it), the "mercs" at that time were made mixing 3 factions, with avaiabilities halved, and AVA T to 4. I think it was just a dessign decission at that time, and they are carrying it until today. Also, there are some arbitrarieties that doesn't go lore-AVA, you can check for example the remotes AVA in the different sectorials and compare with what CB says about "who is the faction of remotes". There is one article in which they specifically said that "no, pano is not the remote's faction, that is nomads", and in some places they say that nomads have a record of fielding remotes in higher numbers than other factions, but pano sectorials has in overall the same or higher AVA for remotes (with even 3 for pulsebots sometimes)
     
    theradrussian likes this.
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    I thought the merc factions were two factions, not three.

    Faction identity is important, but you can still get stuff that fills similar functions in other ways (e.g.: Not the TAG faction but need really heavy weapons? Have a Yan Huo. Not the TAG faction but really need a TAG? Have Achilles.), but that's besides the point as this is about the 15 unit limit. As is, removing AVA T from the game is more than doable and would limit several sectorials from playing the extreme Trooper games, as the difference between Total and just a high number is pretty much perception. I mean it can't get much worse than the Zhanshi situation (which is also WB's and IA's only indirect damage source) - though we're still waiting for the Zhanshi Dire Foe which could do "a Leila".
     
  11. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    3,019
    Five? MRRF is defunct and won't even be there at release, we can only hope CB keeps the promise to bring them in line by end of the year. Caledonia is about to get dropped and severely affected by N4 changes. USARF is complete and also affected, just as droppable as Caledonia.

    They have ONE stable sectorial, TAK. And a new one, which could easily be switched to NA2.

    After what they did to Tohaa "because it didn't fit N4", I don't trust them at all not to squat another "poorly fitting" army.
     
  12. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    2,443
    Five sectorials. You can play five sectorials, Army supports five Sectorials, and even if somehow you don't already have or can't get the minis (hardly a problem usually) the proxy rules let you play anything else, hence Ariadna and PanO have five sectorials.


    Maybe you PERSONALLY don't like the other sectorials or don't want to play them, but that does nothing to deny the fact Ariadna has 5 Sectorials.


    Also I'm completely baffled at the fact you are comparing Tohaa to a faction that gets releases practically monthly and just got an extra Sectorial out of nowhere (because, no matter your opinions, Kosmoflot is an Ariadnan Sectorial made up of Ariadnan units)
     
  13. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    3,019
    You keep saying this. Can I play MRRF at release of N4? Won't they drop either Caledonia or USARF?

    It's not about what I like playing and it's not about releases. Tohaa is also getting releases (some of them via Spiral). It's about how CB treats factions that they consider "complete" or they have no idea how to fit into the current design. They remove them.
     
  14. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,071
    Likes Received:
    3,019
    This looks to me like Vanilla and two, maybe three sectorials tops, if they remove only either Caledonia or USARF. They could remove both.

    upload_2020-8-19_12-26-12.png
     
    redeemer likes this.
  15. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    2,443
    Strange way of removing a faction by giving them another Sectorial. I think your paranoia would be better put to use protecting us from nanobots in our vaccines.

    Not gonna keep engaging you because, seriously, I just realized you are whining about CB secretly wanting to remove Ariadna from the game. No more, no less [emoji23]


    Btw, if you remove the editing with your paranoid dreams and take into account only what CB has said (and we have absolutely no reason to think otherwise) , that screenshot shows exactly 5 Sectorials. Big surprise there.

    Last edit: and no, MRRF won't have N4 rules at release but then again, neither will fireteams, therefore we must conclude CB is gonna remove fireteams from the game.
     
  16. Rumdog

    Rumdog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    75
    Wait, what? When did they said this?!:cold_sweat:

    On topic - I don't really mind unit limit, though some of my friends are furious:sweat_smile:
     
    #176 Rumdog, Aug 19, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  17. redeemer

    redeemer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2017
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    180
    @Nuada Airgetlam at this point I wouldn't be surprised if both Caledonia and USARF get dropped during N4, between the 15 model ITS restriction and sectorials dropped left and right I start to feel like CB doesn't want to sell us more miniatures and the main reason behind the 15 unit limit is because we buy too much stuff.
     
  18. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    851
    "when you buy a sectorial, your arms and legs will literally be broken if you attempt to buy into a new sectorial (or even another faction)" the post.

    I feel like a steps existed that this logical leap neglected to consider, my dude :D
     
    redeemer likes this.
  19. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Nuada is right in some points. Who knows what will do CB in the future? there have been a lot of times when CB has done things that, preiously, they told us weren't to happen. Remeber that ariadna also got one of the oldest miniatures (which is also one of the few n0-n1 remaining ones) in the catalog repacked with an n3 miniature, while other factions got almost everything resculpted in n3.

    but at the same time, certain factons will not get the same amount of work than others. That has been happening the last half of n3, and I think CB will continue like that. Ariadna for example can justify the old miniature because they got 3 sectorials during n3, that's a lot of new profiles....but other factoins are in the same spot of oldies, but with only one new sectorial. So, if things go that way, there are other factions that would dissapear before arianda does (and I highly doubt that there will be any faction beign deleted)
     
    Nuada Airgetlam likes this.
  20. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    2,443
    Well, then we can also cry Doom and complain PanO is gonna get removed, we have exactly the same info about PanO being removed than Ariadna. After all, who knows what CB will do in the future? and if a faction is gonna get removed just by judging by CB previous politics, let's face it, it's gonna be Yu Jing.

    But I must say, it doesn't reflect nicely on CB that we are even considering this conversation, there is no doubt to me their past blunders have really eroded the trust and goodwill of many players.
     
    #180 Benkei, Aug 19, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation