Disagreeing on the good play. Guessing how many Orders it took to set up a Repeater you could clear relatively easy, there likely was a better play somewhere. Being hackable matters more and less than both of the camps want to believe. If an AHD with free reign is on the table you're pretty screwed if you can't get to it. But at the same time that's why you build lists for that Running an AHD can be a garbage investment if you don't have any good targets or can't get to the HMG TAG sitting behind a screen of Mines and mooks. Being Hackable also a non issue in half the matchups, spammy lists tend to forfeit it altogether and a lone Interventor HD+ is very manageable. You're pretty much fine if you remember to bring something that can't be hacked and clear a roof. On the other hand you need to bring non hackable sweepers and Engineers to not end up randomly screwed by even a basic REM buffer. Overall I'm all for better Hacking, with less binary consequences. Being able to Reset out of IMM-A(?) and potentially Isolation is a very nice change. But so is Carbonite persisting without dropping off automatically in the next turn. It's both more useful and more manageable. Win win on all sides.
Yes. There's always a better play somewhere. That's what makes Infinity a game with satisfying strategic depth. Neither my opponent nor I is Deep Blue, I'm sure neither of us found the mathematically perfect line of play. However, I think it's pretty rich to assume, without having watched the game, that my opponent's play was a bad one. He is a very good player. I was there, and it looked like a good play to me. I could explain how the orders he spent advancing the Hunzakut to place the repeater were also used to push a button and set up a useful ARO from the Hunzakut herself. But what's the point? You can always find an argument that someone could have done something differently, that's the nature of armchair quarterbacking.
Crazy idea here: I'd make HIs/hackables have integrated repeaters. TBH didn't think too much about it but I'm imagining some funny interactions, and makes -some- sense fluff wise. Would that be OP? What do you think?
I'm laughing out loud at the thought of repeater minute men. That's a great one. Anyways it would ruin the game because killer hackers would always be able to defend their tags/hi and murder non killer hackers.
From hints, at least I got the idea that Killer Hacking Devices do exist, they just don't work like they currently do. Presumably fewer, different programs and possibly no longer punching through Firewalls.
It's indeed pretty crazy. Tbh I'd rather keep it a unique feature of certain units, such as Iguana (IIRC it's Iguana that has repeaters, right?).
In particular what bothers me is units like Cuervo Goldstein, who is a named version of a Delta, and yet has Shock Immunity added to his profile because of the power of NWI + Shock Immunity. Either Shock is supposed to be a counter to NWI, or it's not. Compare Umbra, or Marauders and the UKR, the latter two of which seem to have avoided being given Shock Immunity because they were worried the interaction between it and Dogged/NWI was too powerful.
Its a stupid fix for the screw up of adding way too much shock in to the game making NWI/dogged pointless skills.
Just let hackable come with real benefits -- stuff like Supportware but for HI, for example (and I don't mean stuff like Fairy Dust, that just mitigates the weaknesses given by hackable, as the outcome of Fairy Dust is that you still have a weakness with no additional benefit). It's not like we haven't already destroyed the boundaries between REM and HI with all of the Remote Presence HI we've seen recently. Or let hackable come with a discount.
I'd like to see hackers given ARO tools to defend allied Hackable units against being hacked. Essentially, let allied hackers FtF oppose hacks on HI, REMs, and TAGs. It's nice and cinematic, the hacking/TAG fight scene in Outrage is more or less exactly that, IIRC, and it gives hackers another role as active defenders in ARO. I'd take that even with the restrictions that a) only one allied hacker can use the ARO and b) you have to forego Reset, if only because it really sounds cinematic AF. I get that Reboot and Fairy Dust are already supposed to provide this benefit, but they both depend on using Orders and they both apply across the whole table rather than being one-off ARO interactions. Maybe something like this: Bodyguard (Automatic) Requirements: An allied trooper is targeted by an enemy hacking attack and declares a Reset ARO. Effects: The enemy hacking attack that granted the required Reset ARO changes its target from the trooper declaring Reset to this hacker. This hacker may respond with a single ARO hacking program as if the enemy hacker were in their Hacking Area. The allied trooper's Reset ARO becomes an Idle. One presumes this would not be given to KHDs, but it seems OK for regular, defensive, or EVO style devices, or their N4 equivalents. It's not a guarantee, either—there's the chance that the allied hacker will be taken out of commission and the enemy hacker will just hack the original target next Order—but when you need to deflect an attack from a critical allied unit it or you've got really good odds for a hacking ARO set up, it could be worth it.
Not sure I'd like to see the game devolve into a chicken race between who brings the most/best/luckiest hackers as above all else what it would accomplish is to make those lists opting out of hacking to be stronger.
I have a friend who plays Haqq and DBA, and he's complaining that his Odalisques and Arslan die to Shock ammo - and I realized I don't really have a good counterargument. Shock Immunity is handed out to NWI troopers without any rhyme or reason; it used to be a thing for Ariadna HI, but now it seems it's been spread around to where it doesn't make any sense. Also Shock ammo is too prevalent.
SP gets slapped in the face real hard by this too, haven't played them at all recently because the amount of shock (and DTWs) make them really not worth it. Having your 40ish point characters that are needed to form your fireteams die because they give shock marksman rifles to every profile that they dont give a red fury, due to some dickhead hacker giving a bot MML1, really doesn't feel good.
Ditto for Umbras in Onyx, though the prevalence of REMs in that faction means we can put Shock rounds wherever we need them.
Tbh I think Odas were fine where they were at the time, their price felt pretty fair by those standards with such a counter to their NWI in mind. These days, however, we have new stuff to compare the to, and, well... It wouldn't be that bad, but QK doesn't seem to be able to use these meta sturdy shooters in a cheap(ish) link compositions unless you use fairly underwhelming Jans. So having to rely on a fragile "assault" link with limited options to get around it feels like something that legitimately gets on people's nerves.
back to topic. I don't like NWI + Shock immune, because I always have to explain it to my opponents that don't play the game very often. I'd rather say "This model has 2W."
