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CB, does the Volkolak profile REALLY need a hate symbol on its patch?

Discussion in 'News' started by Nuada Airgetlam, Aug 12, 2020.

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  1. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    How many of you can guess exactly who is American here just by reading their posts ? :-D In every single gaming group, from 40k to Gaslands there will be bunch of Americans offended by stuff they haven't experienced and they don't even understand. It's getting annoying really. Also, obligatory Trump is fascist, because why not.
     
  2. yojamesbo

    yojamesbo purchaser of car seats

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    Nah.

    You guys think you're doing the lord's work, when in reality, you're the trolls under the bridge just looking for an excuse to ruin someone's day because they made the mistake of doing something you find distasteful.

    Your arguments are always the same - "X is bad because it relates in some way, however attenuated, to something I dislike; if you disagree with me you must be a bad person of some variety (usually ending in "-ist" or "-phobe"); the end." Sometimes, for flavor, you observe that the orange man is bad and we're teetering on the verge of a Fourth Reich.

    It's not interesting. It's not worth engaging with. Threads like this are just a font of negativity, they're not worth anyone's time.

    The irony of Kan calling out an alleged "shitpost" was good for a chuckle though. Peace. :v:
     
  3. RolandTHTG

    RolandTHTG Still wandering through the Night

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    1)
    GTA, just off the top of my head.

    2)I think there's some miscommunication going on. I don't remember them being mentioned until HS textbooks in my case, but I did a report on CBI just because they sounded interesting. If anything it's the Indian regiments that get unfairly downplayed in WW2 history, they held the front for the Marauder's and similar British units to be effective. But myamy point was that a similar reference with other units would have the airborne ranger unit being the 82nd or 101st.

    3) Are we arguing that players shouldn't be playing evil factions that engage in war crimes, or that they just shouldn't be human factions?
     
  4. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Don't post in it and let the rest of us have a conversation then. I don't see the point in a lot of threads on this forum, that doesn't mean I go into them and call for them to be closed and deleted
     
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  5. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Yeah, they're pretty clearly baddies, and the only two playable troopers with ties to them are reformed once they realised what the organisation really stood for.

    Is your complaint about them just that a Neo-Nazi analogue exists in the background, even though it's depicted as a fringe group of unplayable baddies hiding their hate behind rhetoric?
     
  6. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    I'm Polish, not American. I'm from a country literally demolished, ravaged and murdered by the WW2 Nazis. I'm from a country with a number of highly active, Russian-sponsored neonazi hate groups that constantly physically and politically attack myself, my friends and people like us. Today.

    I've experienced the tail end of the Soviet fascist regime and its aftermath. My grandparents and the seniors I grew up around fought Nazis in the Warsaw Uprising. I understand what I'm talking about.

    So please, check your assumptions again, my friend.

    "This thread has no point. It needs to be deleted. It's a shitpost. It's started by a troll."

    You sound like bringing the possibility of this nasty connection to light is really inconvenient to you for some reason.
     
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  7. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    See, but even then they don't have 'no consequences'...or at least that I remember. That kind of game was never my bag.
    Fair. But as of 20 years ago...middle school textbooks started referencing Stilwell and Merill.
    I don't think we're really arguing that point in any regards, just that the background for a fantasy setting doesn't need to be inundated with such things.

    And if it's absolutely, 100% necessary to have them...yeah, go for it to be nonhuman factions.

    Speaking for myself, it's that they exist and aren't portrayed as bumbling idiots that blow themselves up or have to resort to dealing drugs to fund their precious race war.
     
  8. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    You must be new here.

    Threads like this are constantly "whined about" as off-topic or terrible, yet somehow people like yourself coming in and shitposting all over or spamming up other threads with your nonsense is "the community at work".
     
    Nuada Airgetlam, Solar and Stiopa like this.
  9. SpectralOwl

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    If this were a civil conversation I wouldn't be contacting a moderator. I happen to think open and frank political discourse is essential to keeping a democracy running. Problem is, this is both off topic and a lot of people are getting aggressive. Forum rules say this stuff shouldn't happen.
     
  10. NickNick

    NickNick Well-Known Member

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    Oh. Dear God. Please let it happen. They could create all sorts of story’s and background. Why have historic references to now in 200 years? Nothing today has this as EVERYTHING changed during the passing of time.
    And that’s even before wen consider the shallowness of the remaining background...
     
  11. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    The well will always be poisoned, because we're talking religion and religion-like systems, and that's always a fraught subject.
     
  12. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    This is more on topic than huge chunks of the rumor/speculation threads are.

    The problem literally is that there are people coming in to tell others that they can't talk about it, and that always ends up derailing things.

    So I'm breaking a rule I have and replying to you.

    I don't outright think that the well is poisoned, but I'd dang well test the water before drinking it if I were getting into Infinity now versus when I initially did.

    There's a problem though in that:
    a) CB has said they make 'real life references'. They don't specify to what. That's an issue as it could be good things(the Norzis being considered a fringe terrorist group) or bad things(the Norzis are well trained, equipped, and supported and planning for a 'race war' effectively).

    b) Not everyone 'knows' the people in charge or anything about them. Dude lobbed a bomb into this thread about Interruptor being a metal fan and mentioned a Russian metal band that turns out to be nazi/white supremacist tied. That's kind of a big deal of ridiculousness. Hence my comment about his example really backfiring.

    c) These kinds of instances keep happening. We had the coolies, then the Desperados, then we got the Imperial Service stuff, and so on and so forth. Once or twice is genuine missteps if you're unaware of these things...but again CB has said they like to bring their historical ideas into things.

    It would be fairly helpful if CB themselves would address things like this, not just pretend that it doesn't exist.
     
    #132 kanluwen, Aug 12, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
    Berjiz, SpectralOwl and Solar like this.
  13. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    And explicitly rejected it, cast out from everything he knew, branded, and now actively works against it... something that (in my own personal experience) most folks elide in his background. That, and Uma moving away from that thinking when, well, you know, she actually came in contact with reality and folks outside the camps her parents shuttled her between. Funny how that works.
     
  14. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Boy, that escalated quickly.

    First of all, yeah, it's quite possible to have the bad guys in games and not having it influence the players. We can play Empire in Star Wars games, Germans in WWII games, various W40k factions also draw havily from real life totalitarian themes, and it doesn't really mean that these games promote anything. But the fact is that these factions are either pure fiction, or rooted in sufficiently distant past, while various hardcore nationalist and other hate groups are a problem here and now. And it's not a theme that should be brought into the game.

    Then please also note, that the most aggressive and ad hominem using posters are some of those that complain about this thread being a thing, while we try to patiently explain why we think that something might be problematic here.
     
    #134 Stiopa, Aug 12, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
  15. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    People love to come into these threads and be like "this thread is stupid and pointless it needs to be closed" and then when you say "no it doesn't" they say "well now it's off topic" yeah because we are trying to talk about it and you keep coming in and derailing it.
     
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  16. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Plus it's a common tactic to trying to bait someone into overreacting, and then playing the victim. Hell, Polish far right plays this game in real life right now, and it's annoying af to see similar things here.

    edit: and regarding off-topic thing - we're moving far enough from the symbol in question and into the general social philosophy territory, that this thread might belong in a different section.
     
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  17. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    There's a significant number of symbolic or literal white power / neonazi / fascist inserts in the Infinity fluff that went kinda unnoticed or glossed over (Kuang Shi, general Imperial Service fluff, etc.) until NHAK were described, which were pretty open and blatant as white power and terrorist Sval nationalists (where IRL "Norse themed nationalist terrorists" equals neonazis). The general fluff about NHAK doesn't disavow them and the phrasing used even in the brief excerpt quoted above makes their hateful rhetoric and ideology sound almost like something admirable / worth fighting for. There's no negative phrasing. It still got dismissed as merely "heavy handed" and it might just as well have been such.

    The Gutier connection for Volkolak might be
    • weak (Gutier listens to metal + has heard the Volkolak band + language barrier so he doesn't realise there's NSBM nastiness behind the pagan black metal + somebody else made the patch logo and the result is caused by going for "edgy and aggressive")
    • or very strong (Gutier listens to black metal + Gutier is aware of the band + Gutier is aware of the band's NSBM ideology and doesn't mind / approves + he asked for the unit name and patch to be another culture call out like many in Infinity are).
    If the connection is weak - it's more than enough for Gutier or somebody from the crew to come out and explain that "hey, this isn't the case, we don't approve of white supremacy, fascist governments and generally disavow such ideology". Cool.

    If the connection is strong though - damn. This poisons the well for me. If this is a whistleblow that turned out to be too readable and Gutier indeed does have some kind of NSBM, fascist, white power, neonazi, supremacist sympathies, then a lot of us will need to review whether we want to monetarily support a company where such a person is a lead designer.

    At this point, I trust the connection is weak. I hope it isn't strong. But I have been burned before and I'm afraid this might be another case of the same. It's not unreasonable to be wary of being burned again.
     
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  18. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    This is exactly why I said upthread that some of the shitposters and their motivations for keeping this thread dead and buried are very suspicious to me.
     
  19. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    And, honestly, should have been a PM. Making a thread of it seems a bit showy.
     
  20. WildSam

    WildSam Member

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    1. Russian metal sites don't mention anything about this.
    2. I checked all their texts and didn't found anything even remote National-socialist (only thing I could describe as controversial in any degree are couple anti-christian lines), despite only review on site you linked being about their politics and their NS following in the west. Album review mentioned as their most political piece had zero contraversial elements.
    3. In Russia, country which suffered greately in war with NS Germany and still has huge establishment-approved Victory cult and generally hates Nazis, their concert was shut down. Once. By christian activists. Due to Church being offended.

    I understand that few people on this forum have ugly political views and would like to witchhunt their imaginary opponents, but, guys, could you at least don't stoop that low, to lazy fake news?

    P.S. On a bit unrelated note I don't know which explanation would be actually funnier: that some western NS listen to song about warrior meeting bear while thinking it's some edgy piece about dem Jews or that someone can write review about dem Nazis while listening to song about warrior meeting bear.
     
    #140 WildSam, Aug 12, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
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