That's kind of overselling the Exrah units by a lot. The Caskuda was a gimmick TAG, the Iskaller is something no one used, Void Op is something no one used. The only thing of real lose was the Vector Operator (but mainly the HMG profile). Ko Dali was only one of two units in the game with Tactical Jump at the time before she was taken by the CA. Yeah, the Liu Xing got Explode LX from the Caskuda but it's still as gimmicky as when the Caskuda had it.
It has been extremely confusing to me that the one thing CB has been consistent about when designing Yu Jing is that they keep getting some of the game's best Medium Infantry. The one class they have absolutely no thematic or gameplay balance reason to make good. My issue with both YJ and my main PanO is that it feels like CB doesn't know what it wants them to be. YJ hasn't kept a consistent theme since Uprising, with a particular and galling weakness in CC considering they still haven't updated the faction blurb. There's certainly no power balance issue with YJ (yet, O12 Vanilla is starting to look concerning), I just want them to pick an identity and stick with it.
Thank you for your dime-a-dozen psychological analysis and you straight up calling me "pathetic". I didn't expect less from this forum. Get back to me when you've been playing more than 2 years. Or don't. P. D: and yes it's too soon to know what N4 will bring, but excuse me if as a veteran YJ player I don't trust CB a iota where YJ is concerned. MSV2 buff prolly benefits YJ more than any other faction, but I'll wait and see.
Agreed. YJ is definitely in a good place and a lot of the impending changes are set to benefit some of our units. This is definitively the healthiest perspective and all good points that I needed to counter my funk the other night. I genuinely am excited to see what happens for us in N4. However, my concerns were less about Starmada itself as an "OP" faction and more about what they represented as design choices for the game. To that extent they still do. (Although I'll be intrigued to see what the unrevealed profiles have. There's still a whole profile that can core link to potentially kitted to cover that long range) The other upset came from the treatment of IA, considering YJ HI were my key draw to the game. As you mention, YJ is clearly not the HI faction, which is fine. Except for the explicitly HI sectorial whose design philosophy has been consistently undermined. To clarify, I'm not saying it's a weak sectorial as I've performed remarkably well with it and it has access to some great units. Hopefully a points rebalance will go some way to ameliorate this, however, I doubt they'll address the fundamental problem that they designed a sectorial of pseudo-HI that are outclassed/competed with by NWI+SI L/MI. Tl;dr - you're right Starmada ain't all that and YJ is in a great place as an elite toolbox with N4 changes. However, the design changes Starmada indicate are still worrying and YJ not being an HI faction is fine except they created a HI sectorial.
If Yu Jing is neither the CC nor the HI faction anymore they should stop marketing them as such and start marketing them as the jack-of-all-trades or whatever they are (besides being the clowny mustache twirling villains that always fail) And just to be clear, I think vanilla YJ and both WB and ISS are just fine.
As a player who has been maining WB since it's release - I would argue with that statement. WB literally has nothing over a vanilla army, except AVA 4 Guilangs (which works only for gimmicky lists) and MAYBE Ye Mao Haris (though very doubtable, 4-2 is not an optimal MOV for a midrange assault link). Jujak link? Expensive AF, and LI lists vs. 20-order Haqq or Ariadna spam? Lol, good luck, bro. Zhanshi + The Bald Gao or Shang Ji? Invincibles do that better, and also give access to godly Mowang. AVA 3 Tigers? You will take at most 1, or your list is gimped. Duo JingQo and Shaolin/Liang? Gimmicky at best, useless at worst. The list goes on. In N4 thing may change, of course, but from N3 viewpoint - WB is a really meh sectorial, notable only for bringing awesome units to vanilla (Hunduns and Long Yas true love).
Not sure what you are playing. TG has a choice of 2 possible core and 2 haris in WB. In Starmada has a choice of 4 different core teams and 3 Haris he can go into. I've found the supposedly invincible Jammer link is a myth. Put in a Defensive Zhanshi link and you never use it because no one gets close enough. KHD on the other hand isn't bad disguised as a regular Zhanshi HD. [sarcasm] Because Yu Jing = Evil [\sarcasm] BTW another new sectoral that has more Core and Haris options. Thought I'd add this for the sake of reference. I think some of my dislike (jealousy of others too) is that WB has a choice of a single cheap core team (Zhanshi) and a super expensive core team (Shang Ji). While the two new and Varuna have options of Cheap, Mid-line, and expensive. I'm guessing Nyoka are Light or Medium Infantry some sort. To add even more insult, Kosmo has their own impetuous smoke chuckers that can link. Starmada Cheap: Kappa Middle: Bluecoats, Nyoka Expensive: Beta Troops Komoflot Cheap: Rokot, Varangian Medium: Frontovik, Scot Guard Varuna Cheap: Fusilier Medium: Nissus, Vargar Expensive: Orc
It is so outlandish to me that people complain so much about links being vital to Sectorials, then whenever a Sectorial is made with less reliance on them (WB), people also complain. Since we are now doing Cross faction analysis, can you please point to me where Starmada gets multiple midfield camo markers (one of which is an HI)?
So? I'm comparing number of teams not individuals. Also, then why even play it? Might as well play Vanilla. How many times have you actually played WB with more than 1 Daofei or 2 Guilang? Personally I have not and when I've tried making lists with more than one DF or 2 Guilang, the rest of my list suffers for it. It's a gimmick that you might try once and never again. And why is WB the only one that was made to "have less reliance on links"? Sure doesn't seem they did that with any others.
Okay, listen. It's not about how many different garbage fireteams you can form, it's about having sufficiently varied good fireteams that your lists do not become predictable. I don't think White Banner currently amounts to the criteria of having good fireteams since everything that can be linked is so utterly mediocre that I have grown bored of playing WB before I even managed to assemble my miniatures and am currently hoping N4 profiles will change it up. Invincible Army on the other hand is the opposite with some fairly good fireteams but inherent problems, all of which I have been harping on about for a long while would probably be solved with a decent discount to the critical units. It looks like such a discount will materialize such that Yu Jing can become potentially the only faction where a combi rifle heavy infantry gets cheap enough to merit bringing along in vanilla. What is critical here is to see how N4 shakes it up. Balance is relative and it's possible that the cross-the-board nature of discounts CodeOne hints at will disfavour Yu Jing's heavy infantry (particularly if they handle Frenzy units poorly in this regard), but it's also possible that Yu Jing having unusually many profiles in the lower premium tier (I define premium units as anything that costs roughly 30 when armed with a combi) will also reap unusually high benefits from it. So basically; chill dudes, the doomsaying is embarrassing when we've (1) not seen all units in the new sectorials (2) not seen any units in existing sectorials, (3) not seen any of our own units, (4) not seen how our own sectorials will link and most importantly (5) not seen the N4 rules.
The problem wouldn't be less reliance on links, Shasvastii does that wonderfully, as does JSA, to a limited extent. But rather, not having good links while offering little that vanilla doesn't. I'm still on the fence about WB, and am expecting it to be properly finished with N4 cleanup anyway. But I'm also of the mind that it should be pretty well known by now that short of the (incredibly well designed, to CB's credit) ISS, Yu Jing's sectorials exist to bolster it's far better designed and more competent vanilla entity. Everything else is kind of filler to justify taking space. Whether conceptually gimping sectorials for the purpose of serving the vanilla faction is good or not, your mileage may vary. I've come to accept it and take it in stride. A finished, fluffy, and thoroughly well designed YJ sectorial is a happy accident.
You make a good point. Yu Jing isn't designed with huge ability bumps on certain profiles the way most armies are (now that Oniwaban are no more), which means there are no Fiday/Speculo where an increased AVA matters. But that still doesn't change that two good Core link options (for example Zuyong or Fusiliers) is better than 4 mediocre Core link options (for example Zhanshi or Orcs) and how one good Wildcard unit (for example Haidao or Kamau) is better than 4 mediocre Wildcards that cost a bit much for what they do (for example Adil, Jing Qo, Agnes Ferreira, or Gunnar)
Though looking at the N4 prices we have it does look like Jujaks might be down at the 20-25 point mark in N4, which really opens up that Fireteam's viability!
Ya that's not sick at all. HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ORC HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 44) 3.5 SWC | 111 Points HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) ZHANSHI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 42) 3.5 SWC | 112 Points
Right. White Company. Video is too new. Wait for it. Edit: Yeah, not much to over-react to. All still depends on how Invinicibles N4 shapes up. NA2 mercs continues to be utter garbage of an idea that dilutes the game, of course, but nothing new here, really, but White Banner looks fairly tame with no skirmishers and only a couple of Tigers and Nokken to provide forward forces. Edit: missed the single Guilang - that's it - rabble rabble rabble (j/k)
I'm sure it is, but just like real salt mines; I'm also fairly sure it won't be as good as a gold mine for those operating it...
Not really, I play both and looking at it, it just seems kinda mediocre. Not great, not awful, has a bit more versatility than PanO and slightly better links than YJ at the cost of lacking the superior gunners of both factions or the ability to go all-in on the AVA of some skew choice. There's Smoke to use with the unlinked Nisse, that's kinda powerful I guess. And the Danavas White Noise makes a great combo with the Bulleteer. Tigers and Guilang are great wherever you can take them.
It's more annoying on the aspect of that smoke+haidao was deemed OP for IA, and the Hulang ended up getting fucked in the ass over that, yet here we have the core linking Haidao with smoke warband support... Similar to "why the fuck does Dahshat get core linking Rui Shi with smoke and we don't?"
