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Anti-HI - What Do You Like To Use?

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by sololobo, Jul 21, 2020.

  1. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys,

    I’m eagerly waiting for N4, but in the meantime I was wanting to know what are your go to units to cause Heavy Infantry trouble on the battlefield.

    It’s a simple post, but hopefully it will be fun and enlightening for us younger or less seasoned players.
     
  2. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Mutts and Al Djabel.

    Also, if you can get them out of cover, a Mukhtar is adequate for grinding through high ARM.
     
  3. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    Ah, the classic Mutt for immobilization. Al Djabel is an interesting choice. How do you leverage him against HI? :)
     
  4. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Viral CCW and MA4 means forcing four BTS saves per order. Even an HI doesn't last long against that.

    Regular Fidays, even the DA CCW Fiday, are inadequate for hunting HI. At burst 1, they just don't put wounds on fast enough.
     
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  5. kesharq

    kesharq Lucky Dice-Roller

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    I had some success with an Asawira Doc (AP Rifle) together with 2 Muyib in a (Haris) Linkteam lately.
     
  6. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    Well good Sir, you just cause me to change one of my lists. lol Viral claws here I come!
     
  7. AssaultUnicorn

    AssaultUnicorn KTS is the best unit

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    You can check my "Learning to Play QK" thread that went mostly against Invincible Army. The TLDR version is Bashi with E/Mauler, Yuan Yuan with AP or DA CCW, Hawwa AHD, linked Wild Bill with DA/Stun mode on his pistols if you park your guys in the midfield. If you pair AHD with an Iguana then it can also work reasonably well.
     
  8. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Bullets.
     
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  9. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    To be honest I don't treat Djabel as an Anti-HI unit ;) I love this guy, but having DAM 13 vs BTS 3 / 6 or even 9 isn't something great. And some of those HI can fight back.
    I usually put enemy's HI down with intensive HMG fire - mostly with Djan (and from a smoke). Some infiltrated Hacker can be a good support, like Al'Hawwa or Tuareg. And if I know I'll be fighting against enemies with many HI / TAGs (like in 400 pts LI tournaments) I like to take Barid AHD with his IceBreaker.
    Besides, we have Ghazis, which are great for immobilizing Heavies.
    And we also have motorcycles - ignored by many, loved by me ;) My Kasym put down few HIs with his EXP CCW. And Zuleyka can fry almost anyone with her double flamers.
    If we're talking about irregulars, then I have to mention humble Daylamis - they're Panzerfausts can wreak havoc in enemy lines, mine got on their account toughies like Asura, Knight of Montesa, and many more.
    I also had some nice results when using Bashi with AP Rifle - he can take some enemies without cover, which is nice.

    And that's also the advantage of guys like Nahabs - all of them, but mostly Red Fury. This weapon doesn't have high DAM, but Nahab can get into a good position and hit the weak spot of some HIs. I played with mine only few games, yet he managed to kill Charontid for example.

    And as I'm a player that likes to use many different units and give everyone a chance, I also used Zhayedan Breaker Rifle as a Hunter-Killer unit, and he had some nice games. He's a glass cannon and with some bad luck he can be irritating, but hitting on 15 in preferred range can be better, than many HIs in the same range, and his Breaker + normal DAM is great. His best moment in my games was destroying a wounded Squalo in one beautitul burst.

    In days of N2 I almost always fielded AzRa'il Feuerbach to have something with punch. Now Azzies are rarely used, but still they work nice against high armored units - especially AP HMG one in active turn.

    So - we have really many choices.
    And it helps to engage HI on your terms - so if they use HMG/ML then shoot them from their 0 / - 3 range for example with weapons that let you benefit from +3 to hit.


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
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  10. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Against for example a Swiss Guard, Mr. Grabby is 76% to wound and 43% to do two wounds. There's a 6% risk of the Swiss winning the fight. You won't find much better odds than that! A Djanbazan HMG is around 43% to do one wound in normal conditions (even shooting through smoke, he's only 57%).

    It's often said but bears repeating: armour is overrated and burst is king. DAM 13 vs. BTS 6 doesn't sound like much, but when your opponent has to roll four saves the odds are very good that at least one of them will be 7 or lower. Plus, at CC23, Mr. Grabby has quite good crit odds.

    So I find I must strongly disagree with the contention that an HMG more efficient than Al Djabel at killing HI. Plus, why did your opponent leave his HI out where the Djanbazan could reach it with an HMG in the first place? To kill HI, you have to be able to hunt them down.

    You are of course correct that Al is the wrong choice for going after a CC specialist HI like a knight.
     
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  11. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    From my limited use and going against. The Barid AHD is really good. WIP14 BTS3 is already very good. Then also a pitcher to stay away from HI/TAG/REM. Super cheap at 19pts, .5 swc. But the main thing is the Icebreaker upgrade. Burst 2 (can be split), Damage is 12 but all BTS is 0! It's mono for BTS. It then does IMM 1. Not fantastic but gets the job done for others to come in and take it out.
     
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  12. Agorapocalypse

    Agorapocalypse Namurr and Nahab are girlfriends

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    Gotta agree with this. I ran one in a vanilla list at a tourney once and threw her on suppressive in the mid field. My opponent ran up his anaconda and proceeded to think he could bully his way through to kill my specialist and hold the objective there. 3 firefights in and ive stripped them of 2 wounds and 3 or 4 orders. Im pretty sure i finished him off after that but i was drinking so....???
     
  13. KwarkyMats

    KwarkyMats Well-Known Member

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    The obvious anti-armor units have already been named in this thread.
    So let's look at some other not as optimal options. Mind you, they might not be the best at the job, but you might get some use out of them. I personally have most of my success with PF Daylamis and Ghazis.

    These all have the advantage of being a specialist as well!

    Namurrs make for decent, albeit expensive, anti-HI/TAG units as well, but they rely on getting close. Move into engaged with a HI or TAG and your opponent now as a difficult choice to make, since they'll either get hit by an E/Marat or an E/M CC weapon hit. The Namurr can tank a flamethrower hit as well thanks to total immunity.
    If you manage to immobilize the target, you can follow up with d-charges if needed.

    If your goal is to just immobilize heavy troops, the following Monstrucker profile might be worth looking at as well:
    MONSTRUCKER Boarding Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher, E/M Grenade / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)

    Thanks to climbing plus you can get funky angles. With the adhesive launcher for 8-16 range and the E/M grenade for 0-8 range you have various ways of disabling your opponents. If you're feeling cheeky you can follow up with AP boarding shotgun rounds.

    And finally there's the Ayyar.
    ÁYYĀR (Surprise Shot L2) Rifle + E/Mitter, D.E.P. / 2 Viral Pistols, CCW, Knife. (0 | 37)

    Thanks to holoprojector level 2, you should be able to sneak around and get into your opponents backline. Surprise shot level 2 E/Mitter from mid-range or DEP/Viral Pistols from close range can put on the hurt. Make sure to catch the baddies outside of cover!
     
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  14. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of non-obvious troops, i'd add in the Daylami Panzerfaust. .5 SWC sucks but 7pts. are great. Not a bad trade off against an HI or TAG I think.
     
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  15. Rhys

    Rhys Active Member

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    So these are some of my preferred hard target options in Vanilla Haqq:

    Al-Djabel, Barid and Ghazi have all already been explained.

    The Lasiq (either one) is also a solid option depending on the board state.

    B2 DAM 15 Viral or B3 DAM 13 Viral on a BS12 unit with climbing plus and mimetisim and an X-Visor.

    Tarik (any profile) is excellent for obvious reasons (FAT2, great stats and guns)

    Muyibs with the HRL or Panzerfaust or even the E/Mauler

    The Maghariba Guard

    And in a pinch the humble Naffatun with HFT (because they're so damn cheap mostly and highly dangerous)
     
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  16. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    I'd honestly ask for details on what happens first. Sometimes the problem with HI/TAGs/whatever is now with what they are, but with the vulgar fact they get places and shoot your things.
     
  17. Natsymir

    Natsymir Well-Known Member

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    Bashi Bazouk with Combi Rifle and E/Mauler, or Bashi Bazouk with AP Rifle and two Breaker pistols, both 17 pts. They can arrive from unexpected angles and cause some real problems for enemy heavy hitters. They're also great for dealing with perimeter weapons, thanks to their holoechoes, so I love to field them when I face Nomads. The Cube Jäger seem suitable for a similar role, especially TAG-hunting.

    I often see myself fielding the Ragik Assault Hacker if I expect TAGs, and of course, the lovely Hunzakut with his deployable repeaters and mid-field light grenade launcher, that generally makes life great. The Druze with E/M Light Grenade Launcher also seems like he could be brutal against hackable targets.

    The Namurr has already been mentioned, but now that I take a closer look at it,l it looks absolutely great, I have to try it - I mean, it can dodge mines and perimeter weapons on 15, and templates on 18, and if it does get hit, it has NWI and Total Immunity. It has a Spitfire, an E/Marat, and E/M CC, so it can basically massacre anything that comes its way - especially REMs, TAGs, and HIs. It's also an Elite with D-charges and Specialist operative, so it can do button pushing and several classifieds, and it has Multiterrain and Climbing Plus and Move 6-2, making it great at crossing the board. God I have to try it.
     
    #17 Natsymir, Jul 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  18. Koval

    Koval Well-Known Member

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    That's true. There's a big difference between a JSA link team stabbing you in the face and a hsien gunning you down from his deployment zone. And that means that the options to deal with them are different.
     
  19. sololobo

    sololobo Well-Known Member

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    Ack, I would have responded sooner to everyones comments had I not clicked a button and lost my wall of text. I'll take it in more bite size chunks now.

    I looked up your report. Brutal learning curve my friend. I can match it with your early reports. lol I got though one page and some posts, but I'll read it till I get to the end. :)

    I like the simplicity of the post and from what I have read, some prefer to grind armor via dice in a more direct approach. It may be the best solution, but I need far more experiance to joint that point of view. From my limited experience, my Haqqislam troopers died to a stiff breeze. This is why I was interested in anti-heavy infantry solutions. As of right now, I'm in the "indirect" camp unless other options are too adventitious i.e. E/M and EXP ammo.

    I just slagged some of my lists to incorporate a Barid. I feel that this guy is a game changer, but maybe I am over hyping him when he is just alright. Limited experience sucks. lol Though, I have him backed up with Rafiqs, Fanous, M.Launchers, and E/M Ayyars. :b

    I plan to respond to most of the posts. I just don't want to look like I am spamming. haha
     
    #19 sololobo, Jul 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  20. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Well, I recall going with a Janissary Doc's AP rifle after a TAG (was it a Seraph? Back in 2ed...). It was the best option available at the moment and place.
    Did the job pretty well, in fact.
     
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