ARO order of operations

I'm assuming that you're talking about, let's say, a 1 Wound Hacker taking 1 Wound from Brain Blast, while simultaneously suffering the effects of Maestro, correct?

The end resolution would be Unconscious, not Dead, to my interpretation. You have a Wound attribute that is being effected (decremented from 1 to 0), separately you have the state of Unconscious being triggered, which sets the Wound attribute to 0. You can't say that Brain Blast happens after Maestro, because there is no order, the effects are applied at the same time.

 

I'm fairly certain that you go dead, because you sum the effects.

Compare an Asura that takes 1 Normal wound and 1 Shock wound. They go dead not NWI.

But honestly I can't remember why I think that. I think there was a clarification on the old forums, but I can't remember

 

There is no order, apply both at the same time.

Brain Blast will cause the target to take 1 wound and Maestro will cause target to go unconscious. End result is a hacker with 1 wound taken and in unconscious state - the 1 wound from Brain Blast is not sufficient to kill the hacker, who needs 2 wounds to go to Dead state. Note that for purposes of Datatracker and Fury (and other on-kill-like effects), both models will count as having participated.

 

Maestro makes them " lose all points of his Wounds/STR Attribute and enter the Unconscious state" and brain blast makes them "loses one point of his Wounds/Structure Attribute". Losing all wounds +1 means they are generally killed (or into unc level 2)

 

That is assigning order to simultaneous events. There is no order to the two events. It's "Go unconscious" + "trigger activation clause of unconscious" = "go unconscious".

http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/...ous-resolution/?do=findComment&comment=973205

 

Mahtamori : What you say is that both effect run in parrallel (both effect are applied separatly without interaction with each other : one make you go unconscious, so is the other) while kinginyellow added them (all wound lost (here 1)+ 1 wound lost = 2 wound lost = dead)

I haven't read any RAW supporting one understanding above the other in this whole post or in the previous one. There are interesting opinions and comparison with other rules (symbiot, protheion) but no consensus nor any official rulling

I would agree with kinginyellow opinion of summing both effect as maestro doesn't say "you go unconscious" but "you loose all wounds and then go unconscious" :
Maestro effect : Loosing all wound => here it means loosing 1 wound
Brain blast effect : loosing one wound

You add the two and it mean you take 2 wounds

 

And with his way of reading it, a Crane AHD would take 3.

Keep in mind that Maestro has no effect on a model that's unconscious and 4 Maestro on the same target still results in only unconscious (not 4 separate losses of 1 wound), so adding the two effects together by necessity means you've assigned order to them - Maestro will only remove 1 wound if that wound has not been removed by something else.

 

Yes, but I don't see how it's less supported by rules than the fact that it would take 2

This way of seing things means you also apply an order, just the opposite : brain blast make the target loose one wound so maestro has no effect

As there is no rules supporting one order above the other, I think we should ask for an official rulling/FAQ

I have no dog in this fight (only use a mk2 AHD with my danava) so I could easily accept my opinion is wrong if showed anything official (rules, rulling, examples, FAQ) proving it

 

I think you're confusing order with effect. Running them parallel has the same effect as reading Maestro last, but it doesn't mean you have assigned this order to them.

I have just as much dog in this as you do, the only faction I play does not have access to Maestro anywhere, but partially resolving Maestro numerically have consequences in that it makes the rules inconsistent.
The effect is to go unconscious, not to enumerate wounds and then lose those wounds (even if this is the stated consequence of going unconscious).

Getting an official answer to put on the wiki page would be very good indeed, for thr same reasons why it is good to have such an answer whenever McHaon is hit by bullets (particularly Shock) while patching himself up.

 

This is not the effect. The effect is to "lose all points of his Wounds/STR Attribute" and only then "enter the Unconscious state". So the process you describe do happen : you enumarate the wound (equal to the W/STR stats of the target), then loose them and then go unconscious.

If the effect just was "go unconscious" (as simplified when looking on a courtesy list), I would likely side with you.

 

There is no 'then' in the rule.

 

I'm ok with Mahtamori :

The effects are simultaneous so you apply them to an identical initial state:
Your hacker has 1 point of life.
- Maestro: He loses all his life point (-1W) and passes unconscious
- Brain blast: It loses a point of life (-1W) and passes unconscious
The result is the same: unconscious

Generally speaking I tend to favour the most negative result.
In the same situation if your hacker had 2 points of life,
- he would lose 2W by Maestro and pass unconscious
- (at the same time) he would lose 1W by Brain blast (1 remaining Wound) and remain active.
> The most negative effect is privileged: it passes unconscious.

Hoping to have helped

 

So, let's make things clear,

For most here :
Maesto + Brain blast : loose all wounds (here 1) and loose one wound result in loosing 1 wound
Skullbuster + Brain blast : loose one wound and loose one wound result in loosing 2 wounds (as if you were shot by 2 troopers)

Sorry but I fail to understand how 1 + 1 = 1 in one case and 1+1 = 2 in the other

 

Because that's not the two cases.

The two cases are 'reduce to zero and at the same time take 1' and 'reduce to zero and at the same time take 1'. In both cases the trooper gets reduced to zero.

 

Overlap. Maestro causes a state (unconscious) while the other just says "lose 1 wound". Compare this with AROing with Gotcha! and Oblivion at the same time (using 2 Interventors for example) against the same HI troop, who fails all rolls (reset and BTS). Both effects apply!
Now take an enemy hacker HI, and imagine you use Brain Blast and Blackout. The HI fails all rolls: one causes one wound, and the other inflicts 1 state (Disabled), even if that HI is no longer a valid target for Brain Blast (because its Hacking Device has stopped working).

 

Minor side note: the target of Brain Blast needs to be a Hacker. Hackers carry Hacking Devices. A Disabled Hacking Device is still a Hacking Device and the Hacker is thus still a Hacker and can still be targeted by Brain Blast.

Now, for the effect you are after, an Irmandinho with a looted Assault Hacking Device uses an order to Scavenge an HMG while a nearby Hacker Brain Blasts the Irmandinho.

 

The Effects of hacker has, in the first bullet point, a line about that "a hacker has access to a hacking device", if it is disabled... stops working, even if it's an Automatic Equipment.

Consider this: an Irmandinho loots a hacking device. Per your interpretation, the irmandinho does not count as a hacker (so he would be a hacker inmunne to KHD programs, for example!), however I think it was officially answered that he does count as one, thus meaning that you need to carry a Hacking Device to be considered a hacker.
Since carrying a Disabled piece of Comms Equipment stops all of its effects until repaired by an engineer (fun how you can't drop the "fired repeaters" and grab a fresh batch from the baggage bot, eh? XD), then that HI would stop counting as a hacker.

Rules are wonkers, yes. And we are even more wonkers for "eating" those XD

 

No, as per my interpretation the Irmandinho is a Hacker until the end of the order when they are forced to drop the AHD to pick up the HMG.

Also, to answer my posited situation; the Irmandinho was a Hacker when Brain Blast was declared and will receive the wound from Brain Blast at the same time as it receives the HMG and cease being a Hacker. Having the AHD disappear will not protect the Irmandinho during the order in which the Irmandingo drops the device.

 

Sorry to be stubbon but Maesto effect is not only "cause the state unconscious". If it was, I would fully agree with you.

It is "cause the state unconscious" and "the target looses all points of his Wounds/STR Attribute".

Loosing all points means loosing a specific value (to take a magic the gathering kind of phrasing : you loose X points of W/STR where X is equal to your total number of W). If you have 1W, "the target looses all points of his Wounds/STR Attribute" means "the target looses one Wounds/STR.".

I may be fuzzy on the "cause the state unconscious" side of the maestro effect but most of the post above simply ignore the fact that maestro cause a loss of a specific (if variable depending on the target) number of wound

Can someone explain how lossing all wound"