Well, Lupe is another beast altogether for winning FtFs... that BS12 + Mimetism is a big difference when compared to a Jaguar. I like her in a full Jaguar Core as a heavy weapon, since you lack other options and she is a "decent" gunfighter at all ranges.
That the one where I said I forget he exists and I favour using a camo shotgun instead? That comment was made because I was just coming off playing a bunch of vanilla and StarCo where I just found force feeding people bandits/hardcases/libertos/zero were incredibly disproportionately effective, and far more effective than any glorified warband who is more of a distraction carnifex than something that meaningfully impacts the table. KHD bandit is probably the best scalpel piece in the sectorial. Can confirm had her refill the core then go on a rampage gunning down a Dakini fireteam one by one from 20ish inches, then then tag a marut for a point with the 'faust before getting put down last week.
That it is something I am currently testing myself, as the total absence of any other camo does force you pretty much using it and / or an Intruder. So far I still have difficulties making him dash against any enemy piece and try his luck. I do prefer to use it in a way that makes wasting some of my opponent's orders trying discovering him and, where not, just moving on the sides, sliding behind cover waiting for the right moment to jump out. It does work most of the times, still it seems to be not the best way to use this model, as other mentioned it is a pure attack piece. I was asking about Massacre as it will be something I would try to use in the next I will have, soon. I am curious about him as during the first games I had, the results I got was not the most enthusiastic when compared to McM, that instead has been a central piece of several games. Bit by bit, I am trying getting less direct in my approach to the missions, trying going for those soft skills that seems to be the best part of playing CJC when it come to board control, and so on
With the bandit you need to find paths that has full cover with in 8" of each other so it can mov+mov its way down the table and be in a position to re camo at the end of that movement if necessary until it comes time to either murder hack something, glue gun it from behind, stab it or blast it and its friends with a shotgun.
You can iften pressure someone in to allowing you to approach with the Bandit as long as you can isolate them. No many troops like to take a free ADHL shots.
Bandit BSG is a better scalpel than the KHD. The KHD trades being a (slightly) worse attack piece for greater utility. It's a trade I'll generally make in CJC. Also don't knock the FO Bandit's defensive potential. In a position where it's LOF covers the front of your DZ it can provide good value vs a hyper-aggressive attack (ie someone shoving McMurder down your throat) as it has BS/WIP12 with positive range bands from 0-24". Not something that I really want to be using, but set up in a position where it can see backwards into the dead-ground in the approach you can usually force your opponent to waste an order or so getting smoke down, or potentially hit them with an ARO they didn't expect ('I can walk in LOF of that Camo Marker because my opponent won't want to reveal his attacking option'). ----- This is the sort of list that I'd do as an 8 Jag build. 8 Jags ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13) JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) SEÑOR MASSACRE (Fireteam: Haris) Breaker Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, E/M CCW. (0.5 | 30) LUPE BALBOA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Panzerfaust, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 23) INTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42) BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25) GROUP 2 5 1 ALGUACIL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) INTRUDER (X-Visor) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 43) TOMCAT Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Could be rather fun as a Supplies list.
Thats a very interesting list that I am going to steal. Out of interest though, why is it called 8 Jags when there are only 5?
It's Corregidor. In battle you drink until Lupe looks like a fireteam member, at the bar you drink until your fireteam member looks like Lupe.
@inane.imp : I am missing the reason behind the use of Massacre - Haris - I do not see any chance of forming a core between Algs, Dak and Lupe and having something valuable out of it. A Core Fireteam can be made of two models ( at bare minimum ), in this case jaguars plus Massacre. Same, seems to me, goes also for the Haris. And both Dak and Lupe can made it with Massacre, anyway. Core plus Harirs it is not something you want to keep in consideration, as far as I remember. Than, what am I missing ?
Nothing, you are right. A 5 Jaguars Core is not possible, it requires Massacre. That list does not have a Core+Haris valid configuration. About Lupe and Dak in the Alguaciles link, they have their uses. IMO, Lupe is a bit expensive and I would rather include a Tsyklon, but... the Dak is an absolute needed piece if you are running a Brigada inside the link. The ML Brigada, as some people now, I love as a defensive piece. Having the Dak included in the link, being able to pick the ML back up after its 2W are done... Love that link.
Wildcard can replace required units such as Brigada in a Alguacil Core or in this case Massacre in a Jaguar Core. Note it can not replace the Haris Massacre requirement because none of the Wildcards has the Haris skill.
I also believed that forming any kind of fireteam requires the respective skill on a least one troop. Contrary to that the special jag core has none with the Fireteam: Core skill and is still valid.
There is no "Fireteam: Core" skill, Army just puts a confusing note in the skills section as a reminder.
Jaguars do not have "Core" listed. They can only form a Special Core with Massacre in it. I was under the impression it was ruled that you need to fulfill the requirements for each component, so minimum 1 Massacre and minimum 1 Jaguar for that Special Core (so it cannot be replaced out). That is supported by the Fireteams listing in the Wiki for CJC. Jaguars, per se, cannot form any kind of fireteam, they always require Massacre (and being an exclusive requirement, he cannot be replaced by a wildcard). I could be wrong but... can´t find WHY the above would be wrong.
It still needs for the troop to be listed as "core-able" in the Fireteams listing and the Jaguars are not.
TBH I am of the opinion that it falls under the assumption of "at least one trooper of the type must be present", being Massacre a unique trooper type that, therefore, cannot be replaced by a generic Wildcard but... Infinity. EDIT: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/forming-fireteams-a-summary.3553/ -> referring about the first question that a Riott Grrls Core requires Emily or Avicena to be formed.
Afaik requirements for special fireteams (no "up to" as this could also mean zero) require exactly this unit or a "Special Fireteam: counts as" equivalent. Wildcard is not valid.
A single Jaguar fulfils that requirement and then you replace Massacre with a Wildcard. Consequently you a at least 1 Trooper from the original Special Fireteam Core and you have up to 4 Jaguars + [Massacre].
