I did a little traitorous exploration and played some Caldonia recently. While, there are some things I miss from Pano, particularly active attack pieces like the swiss or tags, one thing that clicked for me in Caldonia more so than Pano is defense. I'll just put this 6 point chain gun here or my big spender is a 24 point Cateran. A few camo skirmishers which are mostly for attack, but have defensive threat / are expendable. Bringing this back to Pano, short of a linked Kamau, what do my fellow players like to rely on for defense? Vanilla & Military Orders in particular, though I'm generally curious for all sectorials because though I see the options, I think I usually overspend on big shiny toys like tags and under budget defense. Do you have auto-includes, or a specific budget you save for ARO pieces? Do you have a plan you tend to use?
Swiss guard is my heavy hitter i play nca so the fusilier fireteam does good work too. How else do you find caledonians being scottish i feel i should at some point haha Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Swiss Miss or HMG? Do you put a linked fusi sniper out? I'm enjoying the Caledonians, I feel they are good contrast to Pano. 16-20 Regular orders, and another 4-6 impetus. I flub Uxia every time but McMurrogh hasn't failed me (cough overpowered cough). Part of why I ask this question is because I think my Caldonia lists would consistently kill my Pano lists. I'm not pompous enough to think that reflects on the factions as much as it does me. When I think of McMurrough with 10 orders, Total (flash pulse) immunity, backed up by disposable highlanders / 5 man hmg link with another 10 orders, all my previous defense plans seem weak.
Usually hmg. Yeh i usually run fusiliers with sniper missile and 2 csu then either another fusilier or blackfriar/ aquila depending on what i think i want Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
If we talk about defense in Pano... In vainilla the "must" are the "auxilias" with the auxbot with flamethrower, "cheap unit" in pano and really good. You can expose the rem, do the job and no loose one or more order. Too we have the regular minelayer, a good addition to the auxilias. And now we have "camo markers" with jammers plus add some with CO in order to do some use of the profile crocmen minelayer not being really obvious. This all what I call "pasive defenses". If we are looking for some active, the nisse multispectral visor or the kamau are the "kings", but don't forget about the baghmari multisnipper, which has minelayer too. Talking about MO, I think the best ARO piece is a Phather Knight ML linked with Order Seargents + some Santiago. Acontecimento or Varuna are the big defensive players in Pano. Both sectorials can build heavy defensives lists, but when Acontecimento relay on "pasive defenses", Varuna does with active. Acontecimento works better against camo markers and impersonators while Varuna can stop easyly active pieces of the enemy, even things like achilles.
Coming from Haqq, I agree that cheap DTWs are a fantastic defense against alpha strikers. Pano has Auxilia and the Regular minelayer which are both great, but not as great as warbands all over the DZ. But DTWs do nothing to control the midfield. Pano's sectorials have excellent sniper options which do way more to interfere with your opponent's plans rather than just protecting your DZ. Linked Bagh-Mari, Kamau, or even Father-Knight are much better at long-range AROs than a Cateran. Plus the Cateran being irregular is a big downside. I mean, Caterans have their place, but Pano's sectorials have some of the best sniper AROs in the game I think. Vanilla just has the Swiss Miss, who is very strong but is he worth 69 points, 2 SWC, and the loss of a regular order until he reveals? I want to say yes but I find it hard to fit him in. There is also the TO Order Sergeant sniper, I prefer him over a Cateran although 2 SWC is still a lot. But who plays vanilla anyway? Also TAGs are good defensive pieces, especially with remote presence to hold a corner tanking shots, then gutsing into cover when your opponent finally gets a hit through the armour. I'm a Pano newbie so the above is just my first impressions. But I can say that I specifically started playing Pano for a change from Haqq which is very weak on defense outside the DZ. I wanted something different so I looked for strong long-range AROs, and Pano hasn't disappointed. I would not consider Caledonia to be a sectorial with strong defense.
I'm an NCA player, and I usually rely on a combination of Auxilia, shotguns, Suppressive Fire and the Hexa Sniper for defense. It's great for counterattacks and the Hexa can trap a nasty offensive unit in a bad situation, but it's very weak to Camo Markers on Round One.
For MO you also have the Magister/Santiago core, which has a powerful defense with linked panzerfausts on hyperdinamics HI. And of course you'll use it offensively too!
Vanilla gets to mix and match the entirety of PanO's defensive non linked Arsenal. Generally there's this stuff to pick from (sorted by cost of the most efficient one for ARO duty): - Warcor 3pts - Techbe 5pts - Fugazi 8pts - Helot 9pts - Regular Sensor+Minelayer 14pts - Krakot Chainrilfe+Grenades 14pts - Auxilia FO 15pts - Order Sergeant HRL+Auxbot 19pts - Sierra TR HMG 25pts - Zulu Cobra Jammer+Sensor 29pts - Croc Minelayer 31pts - Hexa MSR 32pts - Order Sergeant TO MSR 33pts - Swiss ML 69pts Sectorials (mostly linked stuff): - CSU 11/12pts - Regular Flashpulse 11pts - Fusilier Flashpulse 12pts - Clipper ML 18pts - Regular Sapper MSR 22pts - Magister Knight PZF 22pts - Bagh Mari MSR+Minelayer 28pts - Magister Knight ML 32pts - Kamau MSR 32pts - Fatherknight ML 50pts You generally want several types of ARO pieces. 1. BS based opposing FTF rolls - classic linked MSR or TR Bot etc 2. BS based TO surprise piece - ideally stacked on top of no1 3. Direct area denial corner guards - cheap DTW troops like Krakots, Auxbots and CSUs, outtrading a Skirmisher 4. Indirect area denial - Perimeter weapons (don't exist in PanO), Mines and Jammers, no risk for troops required 5. Efficient roadblocks - just stuff that's relatively hard/high risk for its cost to chew through. Main goal is wasting Orders. Might just be a Warcor, Techbee or Fugazi for a risky Flashpulse but also a Panzerfaust toting Magister with Dodge on 17s and LSGs combined with ARM6 and 2W while in Cover. 6. Marker States - forcing your opponent to discover a marker can waste his Orders and set up traps 7. Good old Supressive Fire - ideally during later turns set up with Coordinated Orders. Ideally your ARO setup prevents your opponent from executing his turn while preventing him from going after your Order pool and your Active Pieces. Usually a mix of feeding him expendable troops till his Orders run out, lock down his Active pieces after he spend Orders to get them in position and lastly threatening to kill his stuff outright. Imho Vanilla PanO has far better ARO options than any of its Sectorials, even without linked Kamaus and AVA3 Helots. Having the looming threat of a Swiss ML or Hexa MSR layered with DTWs, Mines, Jammers and Engage AROs, combined with Camo Shell games (Vanilla Markers can be a Mine, KHD, Jammer or any TO troop, the Sectorials lack one option or another) your opponent can't ever be sure what he is facing.
I play mostly Acontacimento and sometimes MO. MO is sub par and not really something with well rounded excellent lists, but Acontacimento has linked Bagh Mari, who are almost as good as the Kamau, and come with mine defense. I almost never have less than 3 minelayers in the list. Tikbalang is also my go to active turn shooter. The major difference between Acontacimento and Caledonia is order efficiency, you rarely need more than 2 orders to kill anything with a BS15 DAM 16 mimetic HMG or B5 BS15 mimetic MSV1 BS15 HMG. That kind of raw attack power is just way above most other armies when it comes to order efficiency. On the defensive it's similar, because having dogged on Nagas or more bs, mines and better guns translates to models that are harder to kill for your opponent, those 20 orders won't be much more effective than 15 from PanO.
It's been a hot minute since I've posted anything, but I like this topic a lot. @Urobros was right when he spoke of Shock and VIRD as the defensive players. That's also one reason I favor both of them... Being able to slow/stop your opponent from executing their plan is a very big deal. But both of these Sectorials are defensive specialists. VIRD gets the most credit as a defensive sectorial, but Shock is also strong. Bagh Mari are hyper-similar to Kamau in situations where MSV2 isn't relevant, and mines are probably the single best tool for creating a comprehensive defense.
Got a club I can join? (Man August really can't come fast enough) Main difference in between VIRD and SAA seems to be the types of defenses they can layer together. VIRD is short on Mines, but gets Helots, Jammers and the MSV2 on their Sniper. SAA gets a much cheaper BSG Camo Infiltrator with Dogged, Mines in their Core Link, Mines on their MSV Sniper. and the HFT bots of Drakios/Scylla as corner guards on top of the ever useful AVA3 Fugazi. Overall I think Varuna wins on the defensive choices (although Mines+DTW access are much better vs SP/Tohaa and their Eclipse Smoke Links), but SAA gets the better active pieces in Dart/Tik supported by Nagas (in N3). Nothing quite compares to a C+ Mimetic BS15 TAG to cause a bloodbath from your DZ. N4 could give Varuna the edge in offense, a heavy TAG with Multi HMG looks like it will much better than in N3. If we see more HI and TAGs that Zapper could be even more valueable than it is now. At the moment I'm a little sad that the Tik might fall off his pedestal, really isn't the best tool to fight ARM 8+3 thanks to the new Crits and even a lamp post granting cover now. Here's hoping his Profile could get access to the MO AP version and the price cut all heavy troops appear to get in C1. Nevermind NCA, I'm positively stoked for the things they have to gain in N4. With hacking getting improved and having access to some of the best Hacking in the game with the Deva AHD there's that, in addition to the expected massive improvement for the Squalo's performance and a significantly cheaper Uhlan. Given the dissection of Camo, Mimetism, Hidden Deployment, Stealth, Surprise Shot and other things related, I'm looking forward to the N4 Locust, Swiss and yet again Uhlan kit. Not to mention the Aquila having an AP MMR on the FTO option and a significant price cut on all Profiles.
@Teslarod That's a good analysis, looking at some of the changes coming down the road. I think your point about the Tikbalang lacking AP is a very important one... Suddenly AP's an ammo type that carries considerable weight in the future meta. I was conscious of the lack of AP even now, sine the Tik (despite being one of the game's best TAGs) actually suffers in TAG-v-TAG missions in the current edition. As Tessla says: the Cutter, by contrast, will shine. TO is obviously one of the game's best defensive rules, but that main battle TAG armor value will suddenly feel very strong and dominant. A full MULTI HMG gives access to a valuable ammo types too. There's a lot going on with the Cutter that will be very appealing.
IMO regular minelayer, auxillia, peace keeper, and militia are really good. Each one of them, except the militia, will trade without losing an order, if they're set up properly, to defend against common threats going around corners. I only ever play vanilla though. Sure these options are more expensive than Caledonia options, but they also are BS 12+ usually and can flame thrower enemies for 'free' with G-Sync. This gives PanO more options for leaving it's deployment zone and attacking pieces.
Thanks for all the answers. I started working on some vanilla lists with Minelayers, Helots & Zulu - Cobras hoping to play a little bit of a shell game, though I have realized it's tricky to deploy without telegraphing which is which because of their different LOS needs. N4 had one change I think is a pretty big deal for us, deploying 1 unit in suppression fire seems like a good way to turn an MSV trooper into a pretty good road bump. I think Fusilier Quinn, Karhu, Nisse HMG, and Aquila HMG and are all looking pretty good there. The HMGs could be active pieces, but also risk an active piece. Quinn and Karhu being pretty budget but still getting you shock and visor to shut down those NWI warbands. The changes I see so far will probably push me back to Pano from Caldonia.
