Frags for Conditions/Tactics/Jackbots

I would also love to know. Want my statistics clean

 

There're two ways of looking at this: legalistically and practically.

Given that this doesn't affect gameplay at all then I'd say the practical approach is to consider what is the purpose of these stats. The answer is that they're to allow meaningful comparison of Aristos.

As such:
1. Kills by Fiddler's Jackbots should he assigned to Fiddler
2. States that can be clearly attributed to a particular Aristo should be assigned to that Aristo
3. Tactics which cause Frags should be assigned to the Aristos who's card they are (so Kozmo in that example) as that is the character which allowed them to be played (the character on who's turn they're played is incidental)

This allows the best data for comparison between Aristos who cause damage indirectly and damage directly. The comparison between Fiddler and Wild Bill is the sort of comparison I'm talking about.

 

Pretty much what Imp said.
I admit 2 can be difficult in heavy poison/burning comps, but you could always track just how many tokens came from each, e.g. 4 burning is 2 from Fiddler, 1 from Kozmo, 1 from Mendoza (I don't think there's any way to get a situation more confusing than 3-state giving aristos, barring Bachmann shenanigans), and then when the states step arrives roll them as individual groups (with the target deciding in what order they flip).

 

1. The controller.
2. The character who imposed the state.
3. Imo the character during whos action step you play the card. But I can see the point for the character whos card it is...

 

In my opinion, and as I've been told to record on the AGL Tournament Control Sheet:
1. Controller.
2. Active Character.
3. Active character.

what about a minion killing an enemy during a defense roll? (adding dice)

 

Same opinion here.

 

If I'm not missing anything, that should be like:

:3

 

What about Minion Frags when the Controller isn't active? Defense rolls, or when activated out of turn?

 

Assuming the bunch of dice Tactics invested (with just I think you won't be able to kill even a fly)... Frag goes (statistics purpose) to their Controllers

You can't activate Minions per se out of turn (like Programmed Strategy or code: Dive), as Minions' Actions can only be activated by their Controllers... So, Controlers Action, Frag and kudos to them

:3

 

Why?

On what basis are you making that ruling?

Wouldn't it be better, for the purpose of accurately recording which Aristo has achieved what outcomes, to give credit for such Frags to Hannibal?

He is the active Aristo, after all, and his ability and Tactic has been used to achieve the outcome.

Why give those Frags to Fiddler (or, obviously, similar Aristos with similar abilities who may appear in the future).

 

This is not a ruling, it has no effect on gameplay (and, as such, is not covered by any rule). I just simply note that the Minion is there because of the Controller, and as the Minion is not a Character (and can't receive the Frag itself), it should go to the direct responsible for its existence into the HexaDome, on the same basis as you award States Frags only to the aristo that can impose it

Would you give Hannibal a Frag awarded by killing an aristo with a Ken no Sen from Musashi (using code Dive)? I guess no. Same here, you use Fiddler's Remote Activation, you award Frag to her

:3

 

Except the way things work at the moment, Frags from States aren't applied to individual Aristos, even if they are the only Aristo in the Hexadome who can apply that State. And given that ruling it's not necessarily intuitively obvious that you would give the Controller credit for Frags caused by Minions.

It would be more accurate to give that Frag to Hannibal. He's the active Aristo, and it's his Tactic as well. Any Frags generated seem to be more to do with Hannibal than Mushashi.

 

As I said before, this has nothing to do with gameplay... Do as you want

I've just stated my ideas about this

:3

 

Giving Frags off Hannibal's activation to Hannibal would make his impact on games he's in more obvious. Taking that example Frag and adding it to Hannibal would probably be balanced out by the additional Frag Musashi got due to having an extra Orange.

Aside, there's an argument though from a point of comparison what you actually want is "average Frags caused by a team [Aristo] was present in" vs "average Frags caused against a team [Aristo] was present in", I mean assuming we aren't going full stats-wonk and developing a WAR metric for Aristos, as this accounts for synergistic effects.

 

That's not how data collection works, if you don't argue the minutiae of what it is your supposed to be collecting and then ensuring everyone collects it the same way, well, you're doing it wrong [emoji14]

 

:3

 

On the other hand, giving extra frags to Hannibal (awarded not because of he himself, but by the chance of having an aristo in a good position and activating he/she) shouldn't be disbalancing the correct collection of data? You are telling people "Hannibal can kill this good", and then, maybe it's not true, because it doesn't depend on himself, but on the rest of the team... And here we are, with a team composed by Hannibal (as killer), Laxmee, Oberon and TaoWu...

:3

 

Sorry I thought it was clear that my "You're doing it wrong" post was tongue-in-cheek (given the :p). I was meaning to make a joke about the tendency of conversations about data-collection to become doctrinaire.

This depends on what you're measuring: is it "Hannibal can kill this good" or "Hannibal can cause this many Frags"? (the chance that there is an Aristo in a good position to take advantage of it is so high that it plausibly occurs several times in a match; what's more from a data POV it's offset against the additional Frags other Aristos cause due to the extra orange, so any errors would tend to cancel each other out rather than compound).

I'd argue it's the second you'd want. But it's also why I said that perhaps just using "average Frags from a team they're part of" is a more useful metric (perhaps in conjunction with individual Frags). This would allow you to distinguish between Frags that are indisputably that Aristo's and Frags that that Aristo enabled but aren't indisputably their own.

 

I am with @Damiel that this is just for lore purposes since everything in Aristeia is about synergies.

If I tank most of the damage in a game with Maximus, DDO Field and maybe Mechanised Deployment or Adamantine against the opponent, then Wild Bill or Moonchild for example are not bad at fragging. I just invested very much to defend my team.

The same goes for if you invest many cards into a kill. Or even buff Gata/Gaia/etc. use Contender with Hannibal's passive and Laxmee's Focused state and they play additionally Sterling Forge.

Who is the one who is doing the kill? Hannibal gives the same amount of orange dice as Contender does.