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Weapon chart

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Sangarn, May 31, 2020.

  1. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
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    [​IMG]

    This graphic/chart represent most infinity weapon's range mod on a square that represent the gaming table
    hoping that this visual reference could help some ppl with the various ranges
    C&C welcomed
     
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  2. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    Refreshing point of view. Its a bit unusual, but I think it can be of good use, to get the different ranges on one look.
     
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  3. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    Great! I do the same thing for my lists for different tournaments, considering my infiltrators, etc... Helps me think about deployment, for example, and how to interact in the different missions.

    It is very nice to visually understand how you are positive for a MSR most of the time, etc... and gives you more confidence in engagements.
     
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  4. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

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    I just wanted to say this is a great tool. I don't think people give enough thought to optimal engagement ranges during deployment, and a tool like this does an excellent job as a visualization of how deployment, and weapon ranges interact.
     
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  5. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    It's also good for visualizing the fact that a combi has four times the positive range area than an SMG/shotgun, even though it's only double the linear distance, and an MMR has twice the +3 area of a combi, despite having the same linear +3 range.
     
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  6. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
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    the SMG is a good weapon until you have to kill something with it
     
  7. Willen

    Willen Well-Known Member

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    I actually disagree. Take that diagram, get the source dot 1/3 of the lateral side and in mid table, and see the reach. Then do that with SP, only that now you have a semi-Mimetic guy in cover ARO'ing 3 shots with Shock/AP ammo. And typically, for much much less than a Combi.

    This is what I mean that I used to do this for specific missions and my lists.

    "Ok, so we have these consoles, and I am going to deploy 2 Zenchas SMG. If they go within 4in of any console, in my side, where would they be hitting in positives? When I place them in SF, what is their threat range?"

    "This MI with FD1 and a BSG can deploy up to here... where does it need to be to hit the opposing DZ border in zero mod range?"

    Then when you face the actual table, you have an idea of what cover positions are still within your parameters for what you want to do with your actual minis.
     
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  8. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    Finally, a visual representation I can use to explain to people why I prefer Spitfire/Mk12 family weaponry over HMG family weaponry and why I ADORE sniper rifles.
     
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  9. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    While I'm all for Spitfire Rangebands how would that graph help with that?
    HMG's cover a significantly bigger area with a +3 over Spitfires and get +1 DAM.

    Agreed on Sniper Rifles, massive +3 Rangebands are just neat.

    The problem is definitely a pricing problem. Given the same cost I'd pretty much always take the massive increase in threat area from a Combi over better ammunition. The SMG is a whooping 5 points cheaper though. Given that I'm willing to compromise and settle on better ammunition types over threat range.
    SMGs do fall off hard on expensive troops who want to use their 40 something points of stats and gear with a better gun. You'd ideally want a Spitfire or HMG given the choice. On something that wants to see some combat I'd usually prefer something like a LSG+PZF combo over a SMG, even though it's going to cost an extra 3 points.
     
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  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    And then it's a great weapon, because it's got free shock ammo and you paid less for it than a combi. I've taken out a Szalamandra with my KHD Malignos, because its SMG had AP ammo - I couldn't do that with a combi.
     
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  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's a lot more complicated than that.

    It takes approximately 30% more orders to kill the Szally with a Combi, but that's conditional on the Szally not being able to turn around and get a good, meaningful, ARO against your light infantry in which case the Combi gets superior because you can stand outside roasting range but inside the danger zone of the HRMC.
    However, simply saying an SMG is always the best is, I feel, wrong. It's good for units who starts close, wants to be close, doesn't want to fight, or where you really don't want to pay for the unit and only want the order or body - and in those cases it's really good for how little you pay. Malignos is in other words crafted to love SMGs and SMG style weapons.
     
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  12. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I'm well aware of the dynamics involved in that, and the difference is more like 50%, and will only increase with the changes to crits in N4.

    It is *almost always* the best and costs dramatically less points. It also provides for shitty verisimilitude when a submachine gun has better stopping power than an AR. That, compounded with the fact that it's clearly used in a way to make profiles powerful *and* cheap, makes the whole thing a shitty implementation. Raise its cost by a point or two, remove the special ammo types, and give it its old range bands.
     
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  13. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    The fusilier Angus shooting an immobilized Szalamandra in good range is 28% to wound. Give him an SMG and he's 52%. So, average of 9 orders to do 3 wounds with the combi and 6 with the SMG. 50% more, your numbers check out.

    But you didn't address the most important point that if Angus is in SMG range, he gets BBQed well before he can do any significant damage. Most of the strongest armored pieces have DTWs making them effectively immune to death by SMG.
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It's not hard to get behind someone if you're TO camo, and then if they change facing you can hit them with something else from the front. The point is that the SMG is cheaper and allows one to have increased effectiveness against high-ARM targets and Shock ammo basically doubles its effectiveness vs. Dogged/NWI.

    Also I'm getting slightly better math with the SMG than you are; Angus is BS 12, right?
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Depends on if the Szally is in cover, can make AROs, etc etc. Roughly 30% is checking lazy (couldn't be arsed making a custom unit, so used Bao for the combi and Lei Gong for SMG)

    IMO, SMG is comparable to Boarding Shotgun which is comparable to a Rifle and all three are slightly worse than a Combi. Generally speaking, I've found Lei Gong's SMG to mesh poorly with Albedo, Hulang's Combi profile to be preferable over the dual SMG (and not only because of the flamer), the SMG Wu Ming has never performed well for me, and the extra 5 points to get a Heavy Shotgun on Long Ya to be a surprisingly difficult choice - yes, the SMG profile usually wins out, but it always feels like a downgrade every single time I play.
    Just to name a few where the combi is preferable - even though the SMG is dirt cheap.
     
  16. SpectralOwl

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    The Combi wins out on any unit that actually has to fight to get somewhere. If the enemy will come to it, or it has any means of avoiding a fight (Smoke in faction, Camo on the unit, certain deployment skills like AD, sometimes Hacking) the SMG is superior thanks to its outright better Surpressive Fire performance and ammunition choices on top of the viciously cut cost. If a unit's going to be contending with a Warband line or skirmishing in the midfield the extra range on the Combi can be essential- although a 0 MOD out to 16 probably still puts the SMG at an advantage thanks to the ludicrous number of SK and WB units with V:Dogged or V:NWI, meaning that the Combi has to deal twice as many wounds to put them down.
     
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  17. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    I got 51.63%. My Szally is in cover, maybe that's the difference?
     
  18. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    That's assuming a situation where the TAG is dead anyway.
    How many TAGs are going to be:
    1. unsecured by terrain
    2. without allied AROs to protect their backs
    3. staring down a gun that can kill them
    4. from what is likely cover for them against that gun
    5. with the opponent having enough Orders left to finish the job
    6. while that kill is relevant for winning the game
     
  19. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    You just need to play Ariadna...
     
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  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Irrelevant to my point. The point is that the SMG is disproportionately effective against a wide variety of targets compared to the combi rifle, and is cheaper. I think if I could replace every combi rifle in Onyx with an SMG for a 5 point discount it would make the sectorial incredibly powerful.
     
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