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Levelled Equipment

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by MattB89, May 27, 2020.

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  1. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    What's the editing error with Metachemistry and Full Auto?

    Both state that they are Level 1 or Level 2.
     
  2. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    Not true. Infinity N3 core rulebook, p. 136:

    The name of the equipment as listed in the box in the print edition is "ED Level 1: Escape System."

    Not quite. See Infinity N3 core rulebook, p. 86:

    Compared to HS N3, p. 34:

    The red text above makes it pretty clear that the original version as written wasn't a leveled skill—RAW in the print version, there is no "Metachemistry Level 1" unless you apply basic logic and assume that the text I made red in the second bullet of L2 above makes it leveled retroactively. Which I think everyone does, but that's the point being made above about this Skill's writing being wonky.

    I don't have a copy of Third Offensive handy to look up Full Auto, no idea on that one.
     
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  3. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    When Metachem 2 was first introduced (before the book came out) I believe there was a note saying that basic metachemistry was retroactively considered level 1. They’re also much better now about labeling more skills with levels just in case they need to extend them in the future.
     
  4. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    As for the topic of the thread - I see no reason under the current rules why you could not have an Iguana Operator dismount a trashed TAG as though it were an Anaconda.

    The current rules put both under the heading Evacuation Device, which is an intentional change from the previous rules. If they did not want the level rules to kick in, they would have called it level X instead of level 2.
     
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  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    And that's what I get for going off the Wiki not the book.

    Thanks! :)
     
  6. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    No problem, mostly they're the same but there are a few oddball edge cases like this where the books and the wiki don't quite match up. TBH I think the wiki's the better source in terms of consistency and being up to date, but I realized folks were maybe talking past each other because they were looking at different sources?
     
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  7. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    I think I agree, but this is such a weird case, particularly as it only applies to one profile in the game.

    The only other leveled equipment that I can think of that one might want to downgrade is Holoprojector, and then only because you want to place just 1 holo model, don't want to permit delaying AROs, and don't want to place a Holoecho marker during your active turn (which seems to be required if using Holoprojector 2 regardless of the number of holos it generates since there's no exception given to the clause in the Holoecho state that says you have to place a Holoecho marker in your active turn to permit your opponent to know that delaying ARO is an option).

    Downgrading other leveled equipment seems to always be a straight loss of effectiveness (as with MSV) so I can't think why you'd want to be able to do it anyway. Or am I missing something?

    Speaking of Holoprojector...

    Army Builder allows you to place up to 3 troopers/holos using Holoprojector 2 on your courtesy list, requiring only one but giving checkboxes for holos 2 and 3 in the pop-up box for including a Holoprojector 2 unit in your courtesy list. However, RAW it looks like Holoprojector 2 only allows you to enter the Holoecho state, and the Holoecho state says you place the trooper + 2 holo markers (or 3 models), it doesn't say "up to" anywhere that I can find.

    Sooo now I have a question, maybe someone can answer it: May a trooper using Holoprojector L2 place fewer than 3 troopers/holos? If so, where is that in the actual game rules?
     
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  8. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    As pointed out earlier in this thread, MSV 3 doesn’t negate any visibility penalties unless you downgrade it to level 2.
     
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  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I have had a few times when an opponent has done so against me and innumerable* lists that would've been better if I could stick down two Panggos instead of 3 in place for my Lu Duan, but I have also not found anyone who could make a plausible argument for why less than exactly 3 Echoes were allowed.

    * And double-innumerable lists that would've been better if the Panggos were AVA 3.
     
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  10. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    Yeah, the only thing I could find was the UI for Army Builder since it allows you to include 1, 2, or 3 "troopers" for Holo2 units when filling out your courtesy list. It might be different if the UI had a single checkbox for both decoys, so you'd either pick one unit to pretend to be (downgrading Holo2 to Holo1) or three (using full Holo2 with the Holo1 effect applied). The fact that the UI allows you to place two is...weird?
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It's weird and somewhat problematic. Leads to the argument that "but the army validator didn't say anything".

    Oh, and it still will put orders generated on the Courtesy List as if it's ONE trooper, basically giving it away that you're using Holoechoes even if your opponent isn't entitled to that info until it's actually your turn.
     
  12. MattB89

    MattB89 Well-Known Member

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    EDIT: Never mind, just realised that the Silhouettes of the TR bots and Lu Duans are different so it would not work.
    You could always put down 3 x TR bots to hide the Lu Duan.
     
  13. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    TR Bots are S3, Lu Duan are S4.
     
  14. MattB89

    MattB89 Well-Known Member

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    Just realised that.
     
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