What does that have to with anything? just because something has been nerfed previously doesnt mean it should be immune to future nerfs should they be needed. The HMG is still the most dominant long range weapon in the game. You know you have a weapon balance issue when one of the first things brought up when evaluating an army is what are it's best HMG platforms and whether or not they can be linked. Additionally given how effective it is at long range generally means it is going to crowd out all other weapon options in that space. C1 is a perfect example of this where list building has pretty much boiled down to How many HMGs can I cram in a list. It's basically the Redrum of guns. Making hard ARO a little stronger goes a long way to helping the overall health of the game especially for a lot of vanilla armies where hard ARO is borderline a mistake and most definitely a waste of points, thanks to the hmg (especially when it's linked). More importantly though a rebalanced HMG will allow for the other for the other weapon options in the sandbox and their utility to shine as it becomes a case of picking the right tool for the job as opposed to why bother when HMG go BRRRRRT and bad guy fall down.
well, the strong aro pieces I refer are the linked MSV with MSR, specially when the fireteam has access to short-range defenses (jammer, DTW and so). There are also the TOs with heavy weapons, but they are strong because you don't know were they are until it's too late". Sin eaters are strong aro, but only against the allready mid-weak active pieces, most of strong ones and several camo dudes can deal with them (it is only a bit better than a TR bot, but with a high cost for it, they still pay for religious troop when in this edition is a discount skill!) yes, HMG is the most dominant weapon, so why nerf a not so used weapon (MSR)? HMG got nerfed to a place where that weapon can has dissadvantages (not much, but it has). There are a lot of situations where people prefeer to have a red fury or spitfire instead of HMG (the easier are AD troopers, but not only), so it got a good change then even if its one of the deadliests. Now, instead of nerfing it, what some other weapons need is a look on them (be it the weapon itself, be it the troopers that carry it). Not everything thas to be nerfs. Just nerfs on the top, and buffs on the bottom.
I think it's clear that this is a usability change that has power implications: ie it makes all Multi weapons the same, that's the point of the change. Provided the power implications are offset by other balance points then it'll be fine. If not, then MSRs will be bad outside of a few specific profiles which isn't great but isn't the end of the world either.
That's kinda the original point, why hit an okay but useful weapon with the nerf bat and say it's to "Control the power" which to me reads to stop it from being the top weapon in the game, but leave the most dominant weapon in the game alone? If nothing else its more evidence on the pile of them value range bands more than burst. From a streamlining point of view its fine and if that had been the justification for it I'd be much less irritated by it. It looks like it may get cheaper if the epsilon is anything to go by (havent had the chance to check other profiles) as they appears to be approx 5 points cheaper if you adjust their C1 points to N3 (which probably isn't an overly fair or intelligent thing to do) and they only loose bio imm.
Has there been any other justification expoused? The SWC cost will still be hard to take on sub-optimal profiles *looks meaningfully at Moderators*
The only justification I have seen is hellois' response to a question where he said, we did it to control the power. It was posted over in WGC around the same time people were bitching about the falling change. Which I'm surprised hasn't been brought up here yet.
People were bitching about the falling change? Mostly I see that as a good thing with a side nerf to Superjump.
There was a thread, that was pretty much that then I checked out and havent been back, so no idea how widespread that sentiment is. It's a negligible change at most that reigns it the abuse of the rule in ITS and puts a nice balancing limiter on super jump.
HMG is what you take for a unit you want to use at a long range only in active. There doesn't need to be comparable weapons like there is for Spitfire. That shouldn't have happened. The other long range weapons should be taken for other niches, such as extra long rangebands or to be more flexible as an ARO troop. HMG is the active weapon for that range. One down is Spitfire. One down is Combi/Rifles. Ammo can be added. That's how it should be. Other options should exist but not need to be comparable in the same role as those in that range. What's the point in adding a different one for the same role? They should have different niches.
jump abuse yeah, when people use fall damage to suicide their models for classified/get in retreat ASAP.
There was also the TAG killing version using possession. It was highly situational and such a mess to actually set up it wasn't a game winner... ... But it was kinda funny tbh.
I hope possession now gets harder to shake off, because suicidal jump was the only reason to justify it being so easy to free from it (even if it was not so easy possess a tag in the first place) but I think the main problem with jump was the tricky moves got with it to get otherwise impossible, that for some people in the receiving end was not so fun as for the people using it LoF. Now, with the new rule, it loses a little move while moving (not very relevant IMO)
I, on the other hand, hope possession gets completely removed from the game (with the exception of the exceedingly rare and story-important Sepsitor). Far too swingy and powerful, it messes too hard with hacking and TAG balance well beyond the point where it's an interesting trade off for the TAG user. CB has successfully introduced rabbits (AHD possession) in Australia for hunting, then introduced foxes (KHD) to hunt the rabbits, and now it's all a complete mess.
Regarding HMG: please keep in mind, that we will most likely see an increased presence from HIs and TAGs. HMG is a very good weapon, true, but it'll struggle against high ARM units in cover when it won't be able to rely on sheer rate of fire to generate autowound crits. Same goes for Spitfire. I do know that the widespread sentiment is that Burst is king, but in my experience other factors matter more often than people realize. Uhlan is a good example; we often hear that its Feuerbach is useless as an active turn weapon, but against ARM 5+ it actually gives better odds of not wasting the order.
Seems like ARM 6 is the break point for Uhlan under current rules, but that is, once again, not sanitized for the decently inflated numbers due to N3 crits which will likely mean the new break point in N4 for Uhlan will be ARM 4 - or at the very least that the effect on ARM 6+ will be significantly more pronounced.
well, we have to disagree on hacking. Before we got KHD it was underperforming, and now it is mainly used on aro and supportware. Possession was more a niche and cool option, but was too easy to shake off (only on aro was useful...and doing it successful in aro needed too much assumptions). I see ok the change to jump so TAGs cannot get instakilled, that was a fail from CB (hacking was never intended for that), but was the only reason possession was "powerful".
It's actually pretty decent, just sadly overlaps with the expensive HMG outside of heavy armour or the extended 0-band. A Combi Rifle/Feuerbach Uhlan would be fantastic.
I've found the relationship is more that of a bomber(AHD) that exists to cripple strategic targets (TAGs) and interceptors(KHD) which serve the dual role of escort (keep the AHD and Tag alive) as well as intercept incoming hacking threats. The main issue is the power disparity between the KHD and AHD which is why I've been for giving access to a SHIELD program baseline (after they're fixed). Frankly the introduction of the KHD was good for the hacking ecosystem. RE: Possession, It's an incredibly powerful effect that adds a cool and interesting tool to the game, however it shouldn't be on pretty much every device in the game, I'd like to see it restricted purely to the AHDs and maybe handed out sparingly as an upgrade. Expel on the otherhand can go die in a fire, manned TAGs have enough problems as it is. Mutli Rifle, on a main battle tag you'll want the extra utility and stopping power.
