The fact ithe 1.5SWC cost is retained in C1 makes me think that there will be some compensation for losing B2 DA. We'll see how that works out in practice.
Just saying, but if AP hit partial cover as well then AP wouldn't be such a bad ammo... that aside, maybe, just maybe, Breaker instead of Shock would work.
What I am surprised about is that HI HMGs have all (currently) been decreased to 1.5 SWC for Code 1. That just seems like a bonus as it was standard advice to place them on HI due to the second wound and BS improvement. I wonder why they made that change?
I think it makes MSRs a very bad active turn weapon by comparison. I always saw it as a good hybrid combination. Looses in reactive to missile launcher and looses in active to HMG. I think it makes them a worse choice now that HMGs got cheaper and MSR weaker. Nevertheless in CodeOne it is hardly a problem because it is still on camo troopers the best available option to get rid of total-reaction drones. And normal sniper rifles which do the same thing for cheaper simply don't exist (yet). If at some point they introduce normal sniper rifles in CodeOne for 0.5 SWC it makes the MSR look pretty dumb in comparison with a times three price tag but who knows if that will happen. If they get a para-mode in N4 it is great again. I personally hope for this. So i guess we don't know shit yet and still have to wait.
Might the reduction in burst on the DA ammo be down to the new crit mechanic? I'm not sure how the ammo even interacts, a crit with DA gives you what? Three armour rolls? Four?
Should generate 3 rolls, equal to a normal EXP hit. (Which also makes T2 insane at any burst higher than 1)
There's also a possibility that T2, like Fire (sorry, "continuous"), will specify alternate crit rules.
I do not believe so. The Feuerbach has the same burst and DA ammo, and had no changes. Crits just give you an addition saving roll. I would not be surprised is Shock, viral, plasma, and T2 would work differently in N4.
Hopefully we don't have enough information to know how it will be in N4. I don't know anyone that wanted this.
Wholeheartedly agree. It always confused me why AP had no effect on cover or low armour units. Including cover in the AP effect would do this, but so would having the AP effect round down and be able to take ARM to 0.
As written in C1, the partial cover mod is applied to the die roll, not to ARM/BTS. So AP definitely cannot reduce it. On the upside, this should mean that cover and firewall are finally consistent with one another.
The thing that annoys me most about this is the that the justification was to not make them a dominant weapon in the game, and yet they left the most dominant weapon in the game, the HMG alone (and arguably made it better if C1 is anything to go by) with a SWC reduction on HI, instead of brutally giving the HMG the nerf bat beating it deserves. I'm hesitant to call it a nerf until we know more, but if it isn't tweaked through the addition of shock and/or a small points reduction then it will be a pointless nerf. Also kind of an asinine change when the only real competition for the weapon still has a B2 AP+DA option. I doubt you will see it much outside of a fireteam where the change has no impact (providing fire team rules don't change, which I really hope they do), with the exception of a few outlier pieces. I can't quite shake the feeling that the change was implemented due to data showing certain sniper profiles being taken over options for that entry and instead of fixing that profile or everything that makes it a problem they just misidentified the MSR as the problem and changed it instead.
On the other hand this makes MSR work consistently with other Multi weapons. And I won't be surprised if it'll get B2 Shock in N4 as well. Plus, AP will be in higher demand, and I can definitely imagine a lot of moments when effective +2/4 damage over HMG might have an appeal.
HMG got nerfed from what it was dessigned first (worse range and worse suppressive fire), so a new nerf will make not much sense now that there are other optons (And with the new weaponry system, they can create "new weapons" easily). MSR on the other side... first lost the combined ammo because was not very used, but now, losing burst on DA will make it just worse, I hope that it gets compensate with extra ammo options, and maybe an SWC reducction. But comparing it with feuerbach is wrong IMO. Feuer is not accesible out there (And not all factions pay the same for it), has access to EXP, is more of a anti-tank weapon than the MSR, and it even retains its combined ammo (which MSR lost). DA in MSR is what justified its costs compared with normal snipers, now, well, it will still be a good weapon, but only when wielded by certain troopers because their skills combination, not because the weapon
I feel that lack of universal access to Surprise Shot will at least help the new toothless MULTI Sniper. Reduced access to easy MOD stacking makes just about everything a little stronger in ARO, and the MULTI's ARO shots are as strong as ever. I expect it to receive Shock if the ammo type still exists in N4, as that would put it in line with the existing Light MULTI rule. If Stun is turned into an IMM subtype in N4, Code One-style, that will also slightly make up for the loss of killing power. There is also the possibility that Stun will be removed, since neither Flash Pulses nor the Stun options made an appearance in Code One despite all the rules being in place for this conversion, which will create a higher demand for serious long-ranged AROs since every second unit won't have a Flash Pulse anymore.
well, its a way to look at it, but nerfing active turn makes reactive "stronger" in comparison, but only because active is getting weaker. I don't mind if that's the way CB wants to bring this, but that seems to me that will not balance things, but make it more difficult for several active units that will get just worse, while a few already strong ARO pieces will remain the same. just one other point: because something is not in C1 doesn't mean that it will not be in N4. It just means that is not needed in C1 (like the aquila's MSV3). Think about this: if everything missing in C1 is not going to appear in N4, then all incentive to play N4 would only be using all units, which seems a bit lackluster to me and don't need a second army, and makes C1 not so "newbie friendly", because it would be the complete ruleset. No, I think there will be extra things, but not "changes on changes"
HMG got nerfed from N2 to N3, but it was still the most universal, strong and arguably the best value for the points weapon in N3. Keep in mind that high burst weapons are getting a slight nerf due to crit changes.
Frankly it's not like Camo HMGs needed the help from Surprise Shot, but I'm curious which strong ARO pieces you are talking about. In my experience nothing outside of a link or a DTW represents a serious threat to apex gunfighters or even secondary attackers in N3; even elites like the Sin Eater are vulnerable to Smoke-shooting or melee, as well as heavy MODs like TO. We still don't know what Fireteams will be like in N4, but if CB listens to the grousing around here there's going to be at least some changes.
