Fix the Bøyg

Plus with Dodge now providing movement in Active as well as Reactive, means if having to deal with a stack of bad MODs, have a strong chance to avoid a hit and perhaps position better for the next order.

 

There's also the off chance of getting into BtB with it.

So far I haven't noticed if the Burst modifier works in Reactive Turn as well, or does the "Burst 1 in ARO" rule take priority?

 

(+1B) MODs are Active Turn only.

 

<sad panda noises>

 

Alleged Voodootech, probable (definitely) illegal tech and definitely an attempt of PanO to usurp Yu Jing in making better Servo-assisted HI and failing.

PanO has great industrial strength and technology, but they cannot beat Yu Jing HI miniaturization technologies.

 

Thanks I hate it.


Thank Bostria I don't actually care about fluff compared to Game mechanics.

 

The only problem with this is called Knights of Justice. Better stats in smaller package. I'm not talking fluff-wise here, but balance-wise; these two units simply sit too close to each other and will compete for the same spot. Boyg would be a more valid choice if its weapon loadouts and skills moved him sideways, away from the spot KoJ occupies. 0 SWC assault gun is a nice option and will see play, but we can hardly call it exciting.

 

Knights of Justice do not have the +3 dodge so from a fluff point its the "we try to make our HI the same as Yu Jing but cannot fit them in the same size bracket".

it is not the armour that is the issue everybody can slap refined Tasseum on something and make it extra tough (well not Ariadna they just slap Tassuem) its the other equipment that makes the difference.

 

With KoJ's PH 14 that Dodge advantage is only +2 - it's not nothing, 10% higher success chance is nice, but I disagree that it makes this big a difference. Especially with KoJ also sporting higher BTS and superior CC (CC19 on Boyg is pure bloat). Also, we were able to fit Hyperdynamics on Magisters years ago.

As I've said, I'm not arguing the result from the fluff angle, I actually think it fits. I'm arguing that having two units so similar to each other, with most differences translating into fairly niche advantages, will result of one of them being left home most of the time. It's not about making Boyg better, it's about making it more different from KoJ.

 

I said the same thing on White Noise. The Boyg would stand out a lot more if it didn't closely mimic the two best profiles in the KoJ, the unit that benefits the most from linkability in this Sectorial.

I think the +3 to Dodge is pretty elegant, given the new rules we've seen, but it's not outweighing the solid, useful package of rules and linkability that the KoJ provides.

 

An excellent way to put it. The base unit isn't necessarily all that bad, but it does suffer heavily from being essentially a KoJ for 5 extra points due to the weapon options it has. The fluff about the voodootech control system is fascinating though, and I hope they lean into it if they decide to change the Boyg for N4- something like Total Reaction could be the thing the Boyg needs to really break off from the KoJ, especially since it has the Heavy Pistol at +1 B too.

 

Had a couple weeks to let it settle and here's my final verdict for N3 and C1.

S5 without anything that warrants S5 remains grating.
The sculpt lacks the nice and sleek PanO aesthetic and finesse, also grating.

"Hyperdynamics" is a situational +2 vs the better kit of 6-2, hard hitting CC, BTS9 (more relevant than ever) and linkability.

The Boyg doesn't have a niche as it stands. It's tooks like obsolete technology or a proof of concept Prototype ready to enter a proper development cycle, rather than field duty.
N4 can still fix that, mostly by removing the grating parts and adding something that makes S5 worth it. There is no logical reason why YJ could stuff all the shit they did into the S6 Blue Wolf. That's a Manned Tag, there's a meatbag in there taking up space.
REM:PRES TAGs can move the systems replacing the Pilot around and don't require a humanoid sized cavity or life support for said meatbag.

While PanO was unable to fit stuff they previously could fit on S2 (ARM5 and Hyperdynamics) into S2 with the Boyg. They also couldn't get it up to PH14? (definitely a point cost choice but still)
Both Swiss and Aquila fit more advanced tech (better aiming systems and MSV3 = high capacity Sensor suite) on the same chassis. YJ now gets better mobility, which is nice to showcase different development concepts. Then there is The 6-2 ARM5 BTS9 KoJ. YJ haven't been able to even fit that kind of protection on Sun Tse or a S5 guy so far.

/rant about the "YJ is better at miniaturization" garbage

Back to the Boyg.
Make that thing do something to give it a reason to exist as a supersize HI with a meatbag inside rather than a neat an miniaturized TAG.
Unfortunately some options are eliminated by having the N3 and C1 Profile out already. TAG sized weaponry is out of the question with the Profiles already locked in. Shame really, something like a Multi Spitfire would have gone a long way.
TAG Equipment isn't out, but there isn't much of it, ECM sounds good and easy to do, just for flavor (and might matter a lot more in N4).
3 real W would be an argument but again, Profile is out, ship has sailed. Same thing for normal NWI - out, wasn't in N3 so he doesn't have that.
A new level of NWI (something I can see Vodootech doing) could be possible though.
Other than those we're stuck with the existing Boyg or complete novel Equipment/Skills. Still expecting something in N4, but not expecting it to be a addition that feels right at this point.

 

Wasn't miniaturisation a PanO thing a little while ago in the fluff? Which is why other factions had S5 in the first place compared to PanO S2? Since something like a Father Knight could have better stats and more advanced tech in that frame compared to what Nomads, Haqq or JSA could do with an S5? And things seemed to be on pair or better than YJ in this regard. The Boyg doesn't show off anything in the rules that looks like a failed attempt at miniaturisation of voodo technology, it's just big, dodges worse than Magisters, who are a really cheap, outdated technology compared to the usual PanO stuff and has more ammo, reflected in +1B.
Someone mentioned total reaction and I agree that that's a really cool idea, having it on either profile would make it a very interested unit and the fluff behind it would make sense.

 

While I in part agree with some of your comments, KoJ armour is not a mass production servosuit and definitely a front line heavy duty model, while most Yu Jing servo suits are mass production models and they are far more mobile than PanO models, I would argue that Sun Tze armour is not intended for combat but for protection if it happens for him to be caught in the action and not having the protection of KoJ who is intended again to be right were the action is logical, but I can see the argument of "why not put the best/ most heavy armour you can make on him" but if we go that way why not put him in Hac Tao armour?

 

Bottom line is that we have a unit with very cool fluff which unfortunately doesn't translate well into its rules, and with a model that doesn't tie well with existing PanO aesthetics (especially the legs, torso and arms look ok in the painted version).

I agree with previous comments about Total Reaction, though I'd put it on both loadouts. It'd be something new, and make it properly differ from KoJ.

I wonder what it might get in N4 that isn't in C1. Sixth Sense of some kind fits the fluff.

 

Pretty sure Sixth Sense is a part of C1.

 

No, why do you think that?

 

In Sun Tze's defense, he has Total Immunity, so his armor is pretty much the best S2 suit there is next to Achilles. And both of them can only pull that off because they're a very sturdy Lhost in a very expensive prototype suit.

KoJ is the best "production line" S2 suit humanity has to offer in terms of frontline Combat (6-2, ARM5 BTS9). While Swiss/Hac Tao focus a little less on defense (-3BTS) but manage to fit TO Camo and BS15 or a bunch of sidearms while retaining mobility in there.
The top range is equal.
PanO hands down beats YJ at the "standard model" now. Which is Orc vs Zuyong. I'd imagine the Zuyong suit is a good chunk cheaper though. While PanO throws money at the problem to increase baseline quality, YJ went for quantity at baseline quality. Good approach, I like that 6-2 is the mobility aspect and shows up in Pano "Standard Tier" and probably Knights, while YJ's "Standard Tier" doesn't get it, but they managed to fit it into the Hsien and Hac Tao, while PanO didn't.
It's cool and really brings the arms race across.

The Boyg doesn't look anywhere close to mass produced to me either (none of PanO's production lines would be suited to build S5).
Complete break from the PanO philosophy of a standardized chassis and shared parts used for several variants most of their TAGs and HI follow so far.
The other break we have from that convention is the Seraph, which was an IRL accident where it ended up too big for S6 because the sculptor went overboard. There isn't really much of a precedent here. So why does the Boyg exist if not to mount some prototype/new technology?
If the Boyg is indeed exactly what he is now in N4, he should be In Defiance, next to the S9 TAG. "People like big things! Lets include one for the heck of it!"

I fell as if I know where the "bigger is better" trend leads from at least 2 other games I used to like a long time ago. It's a death sentence to some important core game mechanics. That makes me overly cautious and opposed to even the slightest hint of the same thing creeping into Infinity.

Zhe C1 Zahnying Profile lists it (or did yesterday, might be fixed with today's update). But no it's not in the C1 rules.