I definitely agree that they could benefit from a redesign - I'm curious to see how much N4 does in this regard for various armies.
Hell yeah, Kurgats do feel like frontline engineers. FD1/2 and Minelayer fit them well. I'd also increase the size of their arsenal some. Heavy Shotgun instead of Boarding one, profile with HGL. On a side note I'm really interested in how Shasvastii will change in N4, and how new Noctifiers will look.
I don't think we will see complete overhaul of the Kurgats, because their resculpted models are very recent (Autocannon is from December 2018). So I don't expect to see changes in their weapon options, but some changes in their stats or additional skill would be great. Right now their problem is that they are designed as basic engineers in other factions, but with specific weapons. And I think this design phylosophy doesn't work here, because they are expensive for this role. FD isn't bad idea, but it is question if CB would give us another FD unit after they give us tons of them via Shasvastii. I wouldn't give wildcard to the Kurgat, but IMHO special fire team option wouldn't be bad (they can make Autocannon FTO and add this option to Vanguards or Yaogats). Even Marksmenship L2 would be great update for him. I hope that N4 will change some design phylosophy behind MAF and they open some new design space for them to make this sectorial a little more interresting, because right now MAF can be pretty boring sectorial. I think there won't be many changes to Shas, because they are relativelly recent and CB already was planing N4 when they were working on them.
New information from Code One. Medikits in C1 needs straight PH roll to heal trooper. IMHO it would be pretty small nice bonus to Morat paramedics if it is same in N4, because our high PH would be more meanigful. With this change MAF doesn't need to have dedicated Doctor unit. What do you think about this change?
It's still not that great. Doc Worm is just way too effective not to be taken in most lists, and WIP14 with rerolls is still better than PH12 with no reroll. Sure, it is not bad, but it is not good either. It's more like a hail mary option that will work about 60% of the time instead of about 45% as it does now. So good, yeah. But not reliable. MAF needs suitable ARO options for turn 1. It is decent at pushing forward and can reasonably fight their way out of most situations, but right now it feels like if they don't take the initiative they're very screwed. Expensive but mediocre models means they can't really create overlapping ARO shots and they have no options to stall the enemy that start on the table. We have a lot of mines, man, a lot. But NO minelayer and no other kind of perimetral weapons. A Kurgat or Rodok with minelayer would be a godsend to MAF, as would be a gangbuster style model with infiltration and perimetral weapons (Make them alien-flavored krazy koalas and I'm sold). Also, we have one kurgat model with shotgun and one kurgat model with autocannon. There's nothing keeping CB from giving them new skills and/or profiles as long as they keep those two weapons. It would be similar to how the Raicho got a new profile several months after the new model came out.
A 0 SWC minelayer sounds perfect for Kurgats. Maybe it's a MAF only profile or costs 0.5 in generic. I feel like Morats are held back due to fluff restrictions. Like "oh a male Morat would NEVER set a trap like that" or "Infiltration?! Sneaky just isn't in the Morat handbook". That idea needs to go or just bite the bullet and make a fluff reason for a camo unit. Sure these camo Morats are considered extremely dishonorable but you can't argue with their body count. Who cares, just give them the shit they need to compete.
Here's the thing: We don't need to make the fluff go away. There are solutions ingame for morats, just look at how the Oznat, Zerat and Raicho were all overhauled into useful (or more useful, in the case of the Oznat) units by adding only a few skills and gear more. Morats can do fine without camo, as long as they have other options to screen the troops and/or perform in reactive turn. Hell, with the possibility of a model having hidden deployment but no marker state in N4 I can honestly see morat 'ambush' units with Hidden deployment+mimetism as interesting possibilities that don't fudge the rules very much.
This sentiment alone speaks MAF. If CB could create a rule that is a part of the morat rule that is like frenzy. Where causing a wound is necessary. If people could not stumble over this idea but. Imagine the requirement is in order to get the buff the morat in question has to be the one who caused the wound or within 8 inches of said morat and said morat has to have been within 8 inches of his target that he wounded. So in order for any individual Morat to receive the bonus, they have to move up field in order to be in range of such kills. The opportunity cost is of course, no camo and on average weak defense... Call it Blood Thirsty or Confirmed Kill and just make it where the bonus is a 1 increment buff to CC and BS so 11 becomes 12 for example... Make this a thing for FOs too. Think of it as a Morale effect in the game. And Morats are kind of a morale focused species, very gregarious and competitive at the same time. I know this is such a big rule that it wouldn't be implemented till N5 but whatever.
Light version of Protheion, though? Gains NWI on dealing melee damage (incl. coup de grace)? Kornak might need to get bumped to 2 wounds if so. I always did think Morats need a bit more of an alien touch to them to set them apart from humans...
Does anyone remember the old Coma rule on Datarazi? They had to cause a wound first, but if they did, they could pop Coma and become a repeater of sorts for the old version of Sepsitor. But I agree. I feel like Morats have been left behind for a while now. I'm sad, appalled, and slightly amazed that they AREN'T EVEN IN CODE ONE. :(
Coma was the sort of rules bloat I was happy to see go out the window in N3. It's part of why I was really frustrated when HSN3 came out - stuff that was equally nonsense, like Biolocator, was left in to clutter things up and cause unintuitive rules interactions. While I would have liked the C1 Combined Army to feel more "combined", I understand that these forces are necessarily going to be biased towards whatever sectorial was being supported in the most recent two player starter pack.
I don't think CB left behind Morats completely, because they gave us some small updates in the last two books. Of course we would like even more love for Morats, but even small updates are better than no updates many other sectorials were given. IMHO I still think there is hope that we will see some Morats in C1, because Bostria said they didn't give us complete list of C1 units. For example when they showed us C1 Yu Jing there weren't Ninjas (outside of Kunai solution Ninja), but with C1 release Ninja was added to Yu Jing units. I wouldn't be surprised that CB hide some CA units, because their profile wasn't done or because they don't want to spoil us some of their plans for the game.
True. The Raicho bump was awesome and the small changes to the links were nice. I hope so. Morats have always been my favorite part of CA (with Aspects as a close second). Ever since I read that little piece that they're all twins with enough nutrients for one and have to fight for life from the womb I was hooked. It sounds crazy, but I just liked the idea.
I have mixed feelings on the way CB handled the morat updates. On the one hand, the army did get better. On the other hand, the updates were uninspired, added stuff that made little sense while removing some fun options, and did not address problematic units at all (Suryats and Vanguards are still not that useful) I don't believe we will see MAF units in C1 any time soon, if at all. However, I am hopeful that for N4 they actually rethink and recost the models so the army becomes more competitive at sectorial level, and the models become useful at Vanilla level. At the moment I will only use daturazi, krakots and the zerat red fury with any frequency in vanilla.
Well outside of the Military Order rework no sectorial saw any big changes to units (there are some exceptions of course like Bolts, Druze which are parts of the armies CB added that time). More or less all updates we saw, were changes to fireteam composition. So it isn't surprising we didn't see any big changes to units. Right now we need to wait and see how CB will change Morat units in N4 and if they have some ideas how to make the whole sectorial more interesting and fun. Suryats share same problems with Mobile Brigadas, Shang Ji, Orcs and any other similar basic HI and IMHO CB needs to adress all of them on the same time. I think we will see change to their Mov value to 6-2 and maybe they will be slightly cheaper, but any changes to point cost are really hard to predict without more information about N4. I am still not sure what to do with Vanguards to make them feel more usefull for their prize and I don't expect to see their point cost drop under 14 points. Maybe give them BS 12, but that will change internal balance with other units like Nexus Operatives and Morat MI. I hope that their change won't be only buffing CC to 15 like they did with Nox in C1. Right now I agree that Vanguards are worst basic infantery in the game and outside of the MAF (and even in MAF we don't see them often on the table) we won't see them to be used. I don't think we will see recost of the models on the whole sectorial level. Some of them will be IMHO changed, but I think more possible are changes to units and profiles to make them more fun and viable. We will see probably cost drop on the Rodok combi + 2x shotguns loadouts (expect to see costing them around 22 pts) Another unit that will probably drop is Raktorak (unless CB add some things to him, I would like at least NCO skill on all his profiles), because he pays for his 4-4 Movement and it looks like all MI will have 4-4 Mov. I am rather skeptical right now and I don't expect any big changes to MAF. If they change modify them and make them better I will be happy, but I would play them even if they stay more or less same.
First of all, I would like to point out that I've been as civil as possible when discussing updates to any army. I've also been a big defender of the 'wait and see' approach to any kind of updates. Also, C1 is pretty good and Combined Army Vanilla is at a good spot right now. I am glad I branched into Vanilla CA after a while. The army plays really well and versatile and the new shasvastii units add a lot of versatility and punch to the old staples. I think N4 will only make CA better when we have the full gamut of units to chose from. However, being unsatisfied with something is a reasonable response. A good example is the fact Suryats remain PH14 when all other similar Heavy Infantry models were bumped to PH14 for no cost. Mind you morats are supposed to have "above average PH values all around", which is clearly not true for Suryats or even for a lot of other MAF models nowadays (PH13 isn't uncommon for Warbands and/or Skirmishers either) CB has a bad track record of handling their aliens. Shasvastii was an odd exception in that the remake was really, really good. And of course, I will always sing the praises of the Raicho remake because that was also a great change (even if the changes to shotguns will make it a little less so). I do agree we should be skeptical of any further changes to MAF, but at the same time I do hope CB decides to change their usual fare and actually goes and updates stuff like they should. Sure, let's wait and see, I just want to think positively.
I remember times when Suryats had PH 15 like Soggy. It was before Campaign Paradiso, because this book changed their profile. They were also the first HI with MOV 4-4, but they costed over 50 for basic Multi rifle profile. Paradiso changed their PH to 13 (other HI had PH14 whole time) and changed their ARM value to 3 from 4 to make them cheaper (they weren't used very often because of their prize). In N3 their profile was again adjusted and ARM was changed back to 4, but their PH stayed 13). IMHO to me it feels that often they don't know what to do with aliens rather than purposely handling them badly. Often they create design trap for themself with alien factions, because they want to make them unique. IMHO MAF has some unique design elements, but they are killed by unit design. MAF would benefit from revamp in style of SEF. Question is if CB would do it. I would even sacrifice some of the units we already have to see some new design spaces opened for MAF. For example I would love to see CC oriented HI unit in MAF, because it would be thematical for this army. Or even Frenzy Skirmisher with hidden deployment and some CC skill (which can CB give us now and they don't need to give us camo) Even Zerat would be profiting from Hidden Deployment skill or perimeter weapon like Crazy Koala (thing I wanted to see in N3 and it never happen). I have many ideas what to do with MAF, but I am skeptical CB will do anything big with them and IMHO any change will be welcomed from me as gift from heaven.
They already have Gakis and Pretas, now with Taigha swe could have the full theme of "rank and file soldiers that unleash rabid dogs against the enemy". And with Defiance. we already saw that Taighas deploy/reinforce through pits... A good chance for a hidden deployment unit without any camo. For Vanguard, they could be moved to MI giving them ARM3 (like Yaogat) or ARM2/BTS3 (like Rodok). This would leave Krakot, Dr Worm and Kurgats as LI. Imagine that. The only "light" units in game are Hungries, skirmishers or support units. Now THIS is a theme! Add a CC Attack (DAM +1 or +2) skill to every monkey?
In my opinion CB has a bad track record of handling old Sectorials in general. Unless there are major miniature releases, updates to sectorials are mostly fireteam options. The focus seems to be on new sectorials while the old ones are kept on life support. Until one day they go the way of the french. This also adds alot of profile clutter to vanilla armies which i hope gets cleaned up a bit with N4. The big counter example here is Shasvasti. But i can't remember any other army in N3 getting that kind of treatment. I do hope it is a precursor of things to come.
SEF was originally on the same page as MRRF, where even HSN3 did not fully update the army to the "modern" standards of the time. It's just that unlike MRRF, the promised ground-up redesign was able to be delivered sooner rather than later.
