It just seems odd to me, as a new player, to have this special thing that needs to break a bunch of rules to exist. Why is it a BS attack vs Reset with no LOF mod? Well, because there's a hack that is already a WIP vs Reset, and ammo that is BS (or template) vs Dodge, so they wanted something different I guess? I think just pick one rule to break with it, like a BS attack vs dodge that doesn't require LoF or something. And I do think you should be able to Reset out of Isolation of any sort. You'd have to use the guys Irregular Order on the next turn for a try, if you fail you still lack another order until the following turn anyway, right? It's not much of a chance, but at least it's something.
Because present in the nascent narrative of Infinity is the idea that you have these supposedly scrappy lower-tech protagonist factions fighting against a technologically superior and morally inferior foe. Jammers are supposed to be a low-tech but superior option that shows that factions like PanO are dumber than factions like Haqq, despite their technological superiority. Of course, that's all been thrown on its head since they started handing Jammers out to more factions, but I think the initial drive to put them in the setting/game was questionable as well.
would not making reset a valid short skill without being attacked first be a solution to the whole problem? kind of like dodge is handled. so in active turn you can enter a hammer area and then if the opponent delays you declare reset as second short skill. if you then get jammed, at least you get a face to face roll, maybe not with good odds, but a roll nonetheless.
You're not comparing the Hac Tao that shows the interaction completely. A Hac Tao can pick between an HMG, a KHD and an AHD. I can't think of any units in the game offhand that have both a big SWC gun and a Hacking Device besides De Fersen (who is unique in that he covers all three parts of the triangle here). The AHD Hac Tao, if he can avoid LoF (let's ignore that he has TO), can hack the HMG Hac Tao. The KHD Hac Tao is advantaged to hack the AHD Hac Tao. The HMG Hac Tao is immune to the KHD and can win the gunfight by leveraging distance mods.
Simply being Hackable does not confer advantages over a KHD. Not having a Hacking Device does not confer advantages over a KHD, nor does it grant SWC weapons. Having the means of overcoming the defensive position of a KHD is what trumps a KHD unit, however, this is not unique to KHD. Whether the Ye Mao has a KHD or a Missile Launcher doesn't make a great difference to this point, you need to use slightly different weapons but against both the option to drown them in burst always exists and none of these tactics rely on the trooper used being Hackable. So the reason I picked Hac Tao is that Hac Tao is Hackable and has a profile that's got the exact same gear with a KHD and without a KHD to show that the profile without KHD does not gain any advantages (other than those derived from being in active turn of course). P.s. I can't even simplify your round priority rock-paper-scissor to by adding non-hackables as superior to all, there's too many complicating factors :( P.p.s. A Combi or Multi Rifle can outrange a KHD, SWC weapons aren't necessary.
they wanted that weapon, an EM that has a little effect on hi tech and could disable some weapons, but not TAGs or HI, not its mechaniks. It has been changing each edition well, usually is Pano the protagonist so...
It's not that being hackable gives advantages, it's that not have a Hacking Device does, which is true for the bulk of hackables. Not having a hacking device absolutely confers an advantage over a KHD (i.e., not being affected by the KHD), and for the bulk of profiles in the game, is a prerequisite to have access to SWC weapons at all. There are a lot of complicating factors here, but the triangle holds. If you have an AHD, you want to avoid KHDs and target things you can hack. If you have a KHD, you want to target AHDs and avoid things that ignore you. If you are hackable, you want to avoid AHDs, but you can target KHDs like anything else. I don't think this triangle is perfectly balanced right now, and I don't think it needs to be to have room for interesting decision-making, but Infinity is loaded with these types of interactions. MSV, Mimetism and Albedo is a really clear triangle for examples. A Combi or MULTI Rifle can outrange a hacking device, but as you pointed out in the Hac Tao example, most things equipped with AHD/KHD also have a Combi or MULTI Rifle, and in general you have to pick between a SWC weapon and a Hacking Device of any type.
While that's a quite spicy take on it, I think it is true that often the 'low tech' version of something feels both better and cheaper in N3.
I agree with that but not so much the moral part. I don't think they see Haqq as good guys and PanO as bad.
Main thing I find in Infinity fluff is that outside Paradiso factions rarely lose on their real "home turf", so Ariadnans, Haqq and Nomads tend to get a few more sympathetic depictions as all their territory is pretty much essential to the faction's continued survival and CB seem to love defenders. The big exception so far was Uprising, which from what I've heard paints the State Empire as merciless attackers despite the whole thing taking place on Yu Jing sovereign ground.
I don't want a KHD for Jammers I just want to be able to FTF them with an effective tool when they're trying to turn off my Hackers. :'(
yeah make Jammers Comms equipment (so a valid target for the hacking program Blackout), and maybe give one type of hacker (say Assault Hackers) a Blackout level 2 (better mods) type program, and suddenly you have a more interesting infowar ecosystem again I think.
Does it, though? Does it really? In the grand scheme of things hacking is pretty weak as long as the hacker can't set up a situation where they can attack without LOF. This might seem very obvious and not worth mentioning but... how do you shoot something with a HMG that's set up to attack without LOF!? So realistically if you want to make such a triangle you have to consider that in all cases they have to get close or you need to have a bunch of repeaters. The only advantage a KHD offer the Hac Tao in reactive turn over any of the other Hac Tao profiles is against the AHD and generally speaking only in the active turn. KHD > KHD. And only in the case of if you can't gain LOF from outside of 8". Unless you mix Repeaters in which case hacking tends to be a numbers game where the reactive player with 3+ hackers (regardless of type) and the player with the most well placed repeaters tend to win. (Hell, the more I write the more I think my problem with Oblivion is Repeaters being far too cheap rather than the AHD/HD+ itself being too good, but there's still some serious balance issues between ISO and IMM programs and in the grand scheme of things I think the game would be better if Oblivion didn't exist and AHDs were as cheap as KHDs)
FTFY. Maybe I am playing this completely wrong, but in my opinion hacking overall is pretty weak in N3. AHD (Assault HD) has not a single programm to actually kill/damage someone/something. Active turn hacking is mostly only working if you are using tricks. Like coordinated hacking. Or sneaking a repeater Forward then using some other orders then activating your hacker but make it look like that hacker is doing something else (and this mostly only works if the hacker has another attack capability, like a Heckler or a Bandit and if your opponent is ... tired). Otherwise ... hacking doesn't do anything in active. Impose IMM-1? If I move my repeater out of the hacking area he gets a free reset and ... I wasted my orders. Any hacking effect that can be removed using Reset is effectively worthless. In passive a good repeater network shuts down the board for Hackables, sure, but not in the way a linked Kamau Sniper / Nisse Sniper / Orc Feuerbach does. It might be stealing orders but it is not stealing units. So while I think Isolated is a hard effect, I don't think Oblivion is a problem. It's the only really good programm of the AHD. Otherwise you can just plain delete AHD. For AHD to be usefull and to adjust it to current meta ... IMO ... Exile should be added to all AHD. And the AHD should get some damagedealing programm like Brainblast.
Repeaters really aren't cheap. They're ~3pts, 1pt and a Short Skill/LOF ARO, 2pts and a Short Skill/LOF ARO but goes out to 8", or 1pt and a Short Skill/LOF ARO for a chance on decent odds of placing them out to 16". They also get a random ~0.5SWC tax on them (*looks meaningfully at Moderators, Morans, Tomcats, Hellcats and Meteors*). OK, so maybe it's just Nomad's Repeaters who get a random 0.5 SWC tax. I have no issues with Oblivion dropping to ISO-1 but it wasn't ever actually that bad a program (even before KHDs). It's not at all reliable on the active (B1vsB1 is generally a good way to waste orders) and is relatively trivially outmanoeuvred on the active (literally everything you can use to avoid Jammers also applies to Repeaters only more so because of the ability to just Move a Non-hackable trooper through it). This issue is that Hackable troopers never got a discount for that vulnerability (so a 2W MI and a 2W HI with the same stats cost the same). I hope to see Program durations go. Durations are confusing, and usually irrelevant (most targets die or Reset out before they matter). It also positions non-LOF asymmetric attacks as a temporary disabling function not a permanent one: this makes them less dominant. It also makes Supportware more efficient which, if balanced well, may be a better outcome for smaller order lists (saving 2 orders over a game is more significant for a 10 order list than a 15 order list).
And nope Exile absolutely should not be added to all AHDs. Exile is a stupidly strong program that principally cruel active Fireteam use. That's already the weakest use of Fireteams. What you want instead is a Short Skill only Hacking program that can be used to strip Fireteam bonuses from Reactive Fireteams. I call it "Solvent", "On a failed BTS save target trooper will automatically fail the Final Coherency check performed at the end of this order". Willpower and Burst can be whatever you want to make it relatively efficient (the cost is getting the Hacker into position).
Hacking is only useful against hackables. If you've got plenty of hackables that's used effectively and you haven't run into problems with hacking devices then your hacking players are probably not using their tools very well. Generally speaking I don't often have much use for my assault hackers around here because people just don't use hackables, but that's because the game is training people to not expose themselves to the risk with more than an Orc or two, so they almost never get a target (plus I often play Yu Jing who don't have many depreps or Pitchers) Incidentally, Exile is strong because it doesn't need a hackable target...
I am the hacking Player. And yes, the PanO Player is complaining that he can't move a single HI out of his DZ. But this is my passive turn. Like I said: "In passive a good repeater network shuts down the board for Hackables" But that doesn't help me in active. In active I have to deal with fireteams. Like @inane.imp said: "active Fireteam use. That's already the weakest use of Fireteams." So I have to deal with passive fireteam use. And if you call this Exile or invent something else that's effectively Exile without Isolation doesn't matter, but an AHD (again: Assault) should help me in my assault against a fireteam.
