I use them a lot. Typically they require dense tables / missions with an objective room, or someone with smoke / nimbus+ in the list to cover them, or someone in the squad with a long ranged weapon (eg. Hasht with his spitfire, or the Jayth red fury). They work better in a squad than they do as solo pieces, although i do enjoy the ridiculous pit patrols a little bit.
I see. When you run them in squads how do you usually run them and what loadouts. For smoke shas only have speculo right and Nox for nimbus?
Well the options aren't huge. You can duo them (for protection from frenzy) with any wildcard, or just the cheapest Jayth. I do this occasionally with 1x Jayth and Messer. I'm more likely to run the Haris, so, 1x Red Fury Jayth + 1x Haris Jayth, and either the cheap Chain Rifle guy, or Messer making up the third. I am occasionally tempted by the Vulkan Specialist Jayth, but Messer just brings a bit more to the party for his cost. One thing I've often done is this: Shasvastii Expeditionary Force ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 JAYTH CUTTHROATS Red Fury, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon, Knife. (1 | 35) JAYTH CUTTHROATS (Fireteam: Haris) Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 26) VICTOR MESSER (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulser, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28) GWAILO (Multispectral Visor L2) Heavy Rocket Launcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 43) M-DRONE FTO (Nanoscreen) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 23) 3.5 SWC | 155 Points Open in Infinity Army Gives a great deal of flexibility given Victor can join either team, and the other team can Duo. You can use whichever squad would benefit most from the extra burst. For smoke, yes, just the Speculo. I haven't run that combo very often. The Nimbus+ LGL tends to work quite well though, especially when it comes to DTW shenanigans. Having said all this - in vanilla they're a totally different beast. You have way way more access to smoke and trickery, and so the cheaper assault-orientated Jayths gain some utility, and can be more of a throwaway unit.
Nice! Like the ability to stay flexible with the links and utilizes the gwailo and jayth which are models that I love but find a bit hard to fit at times
Hmm... do you think that giving Umbra Samaritan cautious movement as a short skill would be too OP? It'd help him get to CC and make him really distinct from other CC specialists, also would add more to his "I'm smoke" thing Edit: upon a longer discussion with my play group, we decided that CA needs more individual skills (like protheion, spawn-embryo etc) - what would you see in this department? Do you also think that our otherworldly boiz and girlz need some more flavour? Atm to me they seem like a human faction with a grain of weird things, not really that different to anything else
My thoughts for a Morat racial trait was Veteran L1 and Fatality L1 on all profiles. Morats are big, brutish aliens with big guns, so why not make those big guns actually have an affect? It also kind of makes up for their mediocre BS; they're not the most accurate shots, but when they hit, they hit hard.
I imagine Morats will not see large changes. I think maybe Kurgats get wildcard because their Haris link is kind of garbage for cost and what is delivered, once upon a time way back in the beginning of N2 the autocannon was still awesome but the game has evolved so much since then. Zerat gets retooled a little for their inevitable new sculpts. Rasyat may get a specialist option. Anyat Wildcard. Sogarats get FA2 across the board and BTS 4 maybe. Something to Yaogats... Morat rule and general morat restrictions and perks... Well honestly even with the new dodge movement, you still don't want to be dodging, you wan't to be laying down smoke, or shooting or CCing mofos... So what do you do to make the extra PH for Morats better, slightly higher bump in CC than they already have with out skills? NBW across the board with no bump in CC across the board? compensate morat rule cost at 1 point universally across the board due to a lack of marker state? My opinion for this would have been to make Morat the defacto CQB alien faction. Sure Shas and Tohaa have some CC goodies but I always thought of MAF as the Alien Steel Phalanx. People didn't like that idea and I see MAF does fairly middle of the pack tourny wise due to some very specific builds. But I never liked the idea that certain lists were to be expected from any faction once the missions were known. I really really liked the slogan It's not your list it's you, crits not withstanding. I do like the crit change alot actually. It brings more balance to the game in my opinion but still leaves people on edge for seeing something absolutely horrible happen, just not too often. I'd honestly make The Sogarat, kurgat and Raktorak become CC effective and give a skill to Oznat as well. Again I feel like NBW feels the most Morat of the skills, and Morats don't even need to have high stats for it. Just the ability to not get man handled and have a light edge over those with no skills... Then lower the PH and CC for yaogat, Rodok and Vanguard to keep list points down. Give the yaogats grenades to the Kurgat or Suryat (Ph14) because it really doesn't make sense all these years for them to have such a low PH and also not use it, since MAF is " known" for bloat. I say make bloat useful if you have a fraction wide restriction and fraction wide bloat. I think that's been the crutch of MAF all along...
There are hints that MI will have Mov 4-4 and that HI will have Mov 6-2 in N4. If we consider that it is true and without considering any other change, do you think we will use some of the units that CA players don't use right now? I personally would probably use Yaogat spitfire with mov 4-4 in vanilla to hunt camo in the midfield in the lists without Charontid. Skiavoro will be also better with 4-4 movement and if CB would give him more Lt. loadouts like a spitfire, he will be even better.
I was rather disappointed with HSN3 that the Skiavoro didn't get the full treatment that the Anathematic and Charontid did. I really want to use it, but I need access to the HD+ and Spitfire options as a Lieutenant.
I know I hadn't said anything in a long time and was pretty upset at the continual semi-raw deal (marginal spiffs here and there IMO) but I did write CB that letter several years ago and sent pastries... In that letter was redress for making more expensive units traverse the field at an equal rate in inches up the field and back, I forget the math I committed to it but the end result was that a LI force over 10 orders and a HI force with 10 or less covered the same amount of inches in a turn as the other. This was only accomplished if most HI costed troopers were given MOV 6-2 which I highlighted to CB in detail. I'm very happy with the crit change because fully address ARM3 MI better than I had thought back in the day. You're absolutely right, MOV 4-4 Yaogat Spitfire actually makes it very viable, it's not as costly as other visored hunters but the Morat rule(hopefully buffed as well) and the change to crits make him now what I imagined Yaogat's to be. Real hunters. Only thing to make them more deadlier is either a secondary visor type ( the predator..) or a way to mark or tag ( FO) I'm fine without but ya never know... I was never down with Aspects but yeah, Skiavoros and really so many others like it were just too ineffective at MOV 4-2, I mean honestly can you imagine how awesome Intruders are gonna be now and they were already great, this does take a little away from Kornak and Raktoraks but they should either get cheaper or better so I'm okay with that. I forget the full range of mods I suggested for MI across the board. I remember I committed a page to Morats and a page to the whole game as a general (hey here's these things you should address the math on. I forget who it was at CB but he helped do alot of the ITS design I remember and he said he liked alot of what I suggested.
Speaking about Morats. I think morat skill won't be in N4 unless it do somethink different, because CB plan to go away with nested skills. Instead of Morat skill MAF units will have veteran and religious skills.
I don't mind the morat skill being removed in favor of all morats just getting veteran and religious. In the end of the day, it is exactly the same thing. HI getting faster is a super boon to mid-range/short range stuff like Suryats. That vulkan shotgun model is going to make even more damage than it already did. Let's just hope they finally get PH14 to bring them on par with the other standard HI. MI being changed to 4-4 doesn't really affect my opinions on them much. Problems with MI are a lot more than just their move values. At 34 points, I am not sure I would ever take a lone yaogat spitfire, even with the movement buff. If they want us to take more MI that is not optimised stuff like the Intruder, they need to actually retool the models. If the Yaogat keeps forward deployment and gets 4-4 movement, it becomes marginally more useful, yeah, but I am still only going to take them in specific missions, it won't become a premier camo hunter for me.
I agree that MOV 4-4 won't help every MI to be usefull, but movement value is often used as argument why not to take some of the MI (of course in some cases it is point cost or existence of the better options). And I also should be more specific. I would consider Yaogat spitfire in list where I would need visor unit and I don' want to take other option or I cannot use other option. I know that in MAF Rodoks still will be more valuable unit than Yaogats and that there should be more changes to them to make them competitive choice. IMHO visors should be cheaper, because terrain rules aren't used very often and with white noise units with MSV can be killed very easilly. If I remember correctlly Bostria said that they will consider each MI separatlly and that they won't give them same buff like in this ITS season. So I would be surprised to see all our MI with 4-4 mov and with other small changes to ,make them all usable. CB can even kill some of our units and recreate them to something else like they plan with other units like Father knights and so.
Well "recreate" is a strong word for the father Knight. he basically lost Assault and got Martial Arts (I assume assault it is just leaving in N4 anyway). I agree though with basically all the mentioned points and am fully on board for recreations of underused units. I actually really like the yaogat models but could not convince me to even buy them yet.
There are so many Skills that already exist it would be hard for me to imagine a new skill that seems Morat ish. Un nested skills is fine as long as hopefully, Morat's move more toward being Morat's whether that's professional soldier, warriors or hunters. I saw Knights of Justice seem way too similar to Father Knights, we really must not be seeing much of the picture yet as of what N4 will be but CB has been doing this long enough that it's sure to pull even more players in while holding onto most if not perhaps all of it's original players... I also always like how yaogats looked but could never make a list I was happy with them in. I'm just hoping Morats feel like Morats and not like over priced lack luster vesions of other factions units. I mean, honestly, Daturazi, Kornak, Oznat Stalkers, Krakots and to some degree Raktoraks feel like the only units that are really Morat to me. I.e. the Morat rule (professional soldiers) mixed with being Hunters or Warriors.
Without any expected changes to Kurgats, and the still little table time the AutoCannon sees due to being a lack luster profile limited to Haris Link bonuses, is it possible the Kurgat will receive Wildcard? Any other Wildcards expected?
Kurgats getting wildcard will not make the Autocannon profile any more useful. It would make the basic shotgun profile a lot more prolific, because that's 17 points for a specialist with a decent gun who would love to follow Suryats around to repair their suits. If CB wants people to use the Autocannon they're better off giving it something like Sapper and/or mimetism. Minelayer would also make it a profile worth looking at.
I broadly agree with you, although a Kurgat AC would probably at least compete with the Vanguard ML in a defensive 5-link of Vanguards. However, I don't feel like that's a very effective paradigm for building MAF lists due to the high cost of Vanguards relative to other factions' basic LI.
Honestly, I would love to see Kurgats get a complete overhaul. BS12, Foward Deployment 1 or 2 and a minelayer profile would make them so, damn, awesome. Sure, they would have to get an increased cost, but the prospect of pushing a 3-monkey team forward and finally having some sort of defensive measure in MAF would make them way, way useful. I would take BS12 and sapper too, but I feel that's not really a MAF thing. MAF should reward you for pushing closer to the opponent instead of staying at range.
