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Linked Jammers: Super-broken, now in White Banner

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Savnock, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I mean... one of them was good!

    In general, I think game devs are best at making thematic lists and if they want to get competitive lists they need to outsource to the community.
     
  2. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    That's the... Charitable interpretation, yes.

    But imagine playing one of those against an actual "competitive" list. Doesn't strike me as a fun time for either person involved, unless one player enjoys seal clubbing and likes their games one-sided.

    I'm hoping this was just a "we don't care, placeholder before N4 time". But even that has some negative implications. After all, of its worth doing, ain't it worth doing properly?
     
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  3. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I absolutely agree that Jammers can't target camo markers in ARO.
     
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  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Seriously? This shit? Does CB not understand what a problem this is?
     
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  5. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    All's I know is that I'm letting Shas cool off until N4 hits and bringing MAF back up in the mean time... provided I actually get to play a game before then.
     
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  6. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Good news everyone! Just all play white banner - after all, the proxy rules allow anything of the same S value to be used as anything.

    That'd be what I do, if our lovely virus situation didn't mean a moratorium on gaming time.

    *waits for code one and N4 to drop*
     
  7. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
    Warcor

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    yeah thx god for proxy rule
     
  8. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Exactly right. There's an investment curve in the game for both points and orders. Some units (Muttawiah) distort that curve. Low investment for a massive impact on the game, aka orders or points required for the opponent to counter them. There's a scale where that's fine (mines requiring either extra orders or extra risk to be dealt with for example) and a scale where it's not (Muttawiah requiring an entire turn from most opponents to kill 4 of them off before they Isolate your key units with less then four orders).

    Placement and usage matter to a point. No-LoF AROs at that you can't oppose and which will succeed 80+% of the time really, really remove the skill element from the equation.

    Linked Jammers blow the scale out of the water. It's such a bad issue that I hope some of you are right that there -must- be a fix coming in for either Jammers or Reset in N4. I'm a little worried that there will not be, and likewise mystified why the broken bits were even added for the end of
     
  9. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    No one discussed or claimed that camo markers could be targeted in ARO or that holoechoes could not in this thread. Arguing against something that was not actually said in order to make your other claims appear stronger is called a strawman argument. Don't do it.

    Meanwhile, your interpretation of SSL2 is incorrect for the reasons that @toadchild and @Mahtamori point out. If you have further questions about it, post a separate thread in the Rules forum. Better yet, search the several threads where this has already been discussed.
     
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  10. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Wow, that's hella good fireteam bodyguard:astonished:
     
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  11. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    I wondered how long it would take for this thread to come. Not long, obviously!

    Has anyone pointed out the grenade one can intuitive Jammer camo markers on 17's, then spec fire them with grenades yet haha

    I will point out that after many community panics over many things, most of them turn out not to be as broken as they first appear. Though a profile can be god awfully strong, often the army it is in overall isn't, because of other built in limitations of the force as a whole you're not looking at when you just look at a single very strong lynchpin trooper.

    That's true for Mutts, and it's true for Sheskiin IMHO. It may well be true here. Lets play it a while and see.
     
  12. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    Man this reminds me of the initial reactions to IAs link teams and later on to Dahshats release reactions.

    That being said, this time there is one slight difference: WBA is themed as a guerilla warfare army, a theme that, to my knowledge, in N3 has only ever resulted in at least very solid performance.

    So we're probably looking at the first time when the new boogeyman is in an overall strong army.

    ...or is it just me hallucinating that guerilla themed armies tend to be very solidly built?
     
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  13. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, we really do not know yet how much fundamental rules have changed with Code1 or N4. Look how massive the impact of the crit change is (ARM now being more valued). We can imply that Martial Arts changed significantly from the videos. The Camo rule might have changed as well.
     
  14. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    If the separation of Hidden Deployment from Camo skills in Code1 is any indication, I'm expecting certain Camo units to become better whilst certain TO units to become worse ( If not remove TO altogether and replace it with Hidden Deployment and ODD. ).

    Still, this is why I specified that guerilla themed army lists tend to be good in N3, since outside of some people implying that Camo and Shotguns will change in N4, I have no idea what'll change outside of Crits.

    That being said, I R E A L L Y like the Crit change, since it is, effectively, a buff for my favorite type of unit: Heavy Infantry. Sorta wish it wouldn't also be an auto-win in FtF, so as to avoid ye olde ''Morlock rolled a 2 with their pistol, I rolled 5 16s with my linked BS14 Spitfire. I get wounded.'' deal, but I don't wanna go that far into crit discussion and am just glad that a random critting rifled schmuck now has to hope I screw up and roll below 8 twice.
     
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  15. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Simply allowing reset would at least take away the unfun part of it.
     
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  16. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Did CB even cared to fix Jammer SS2 ARO exploit or not ?
     
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  17. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    That would be one way of doing it. At least letting you declare Reset if there is an enemy/piece of equipment within ZoC.

    Since I can quickly see the ability to Reset as a normal, no-requirement short skill being quickly abused with Impetuous orders in order to force them to stop after the first short move. Kinda like how Dodge requires LoF, so cheap Warbands can't do tactical-power-stop-rolls. T:
     
  18. Sedral

    Sedral Jīnshān Task Force Officier

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    @Maksimas Move + idle is valid for impetuous orders, they don't need reset shenanigans to do that.
     
  19. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    ...okay, gonna add that to the list of rules mishaps local people tend to commit... <.<

    Thanks BTW, totally forgot only the first move was compulsory.
     
  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Even so, B2 Wip +3 Jammers that ignore cover and LoS mods is an amazing protective ARO.
     
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