I know you're being sarcastic, but a lot of people do feel like this hobby is an investment – an investment of time. Which I get – I spend a lot of time painting and just thinking about infinity aswell. But for me all these things are fun in themselves – yada yada more about the journey than the destination. I see what you're trying to say – But you're misunderstanding the comparison a bit. I play a lot of retro games too – I love my snes console to death, but I understand at some point the technology will fail and I'll have to move on to emulators. My purchases will be "invalidated" or whatever. Same goes for music – buy a CD and one day that CD will be destroyed, CD rot, or CD players will just become invalidated. You'll have to move on to mp3s and buy that music again. If we're going to use your comparison you can always play N3 with your minis – or proxy them as something else. No one is stopping you from really enjoying those old minis if you're so inclined.
We used to do this with all of the above. We used to own video games forever, this right was taken from us with digital distribution and "leasing games to accounts". Now Steam, uPlay, Origin or Epic can just ban you from your whole collection and not even give a reason. Or kill the servers and you lose all those games anyway. We used to own movies forever, this right was taken from us with the demise of physical distribution as well and "subscription services". Now you either keep paying or you're cut off from the media. We used to own music forever, this right was taken from us with the digital distribution and subscription services as well. You purchase music in lossy formats or you're locked to collections on Tidal or Spotify. One has Iron Maiden. The other has Black Sabbath. Neither has Metallica, for example. We "own" cars now, probably leased from a bank, but already there is talk about a "disrupted model" where people are "carpooling" autonomous electric cars from a company. We already do not own our houses, the banks do. So yes, when yet another aspect of our life, the one that is our hobby and the solace from day's worries, into which we pour not only money, but also time, effort, passion, artistic expression and love - proves to be yet another thing "on borrowed time", it's a bloody disgrace. After the lack of communication, misinformation and the goddamn "year of the Tohaa" it does feel like twisting the knife in your back.
Wow. Vanilla PanO is going to be taken out behind the woodshed at this rate, because I don't see an army made of almost 50% knights without any Smoke or Fireteams winning, ever.
Sure, folks can see it as that investment, however, if it’s seen differently by other parts of the community, or even by the company, coupled with the lovely way we treat one another, folks end up invalidating their “investment” on their own.
The most recent army I’ve completed is QK. Immediately prior was ASA. Right now I’m in “wait and see” mode. Truth is, if I like code 1 and N4, I’ll move into something new. I like buying this stuff and I like painting it, too. I didn’t “waste” my money, time or effort. I spent it on something I enjoyed, the same as if it were a dinner out or a concert. And if I don’t like them, it won’t matter what factions are unplayable.
The thing about it is that because CB is seemingly intentionally obfuscatory about what they're doing, it comes off like it's not a good-faith contraction of the game space but something else. People who bought Shikami thinking they could use them with their YJ only to have the rug pulled out from under them like a week later are a good example - that shit pisses off customers. I know two people who left Infinity over Uprising.
If nothing else the fact that there is a pinned thread over in the Tohaa forum right now titled 'Tohaa in N4' is super hard to spin as a good faith move if Tohaa are not going to be in N4.
This on the heels of the "year of the Tohaa" which saw no movement in the design space or releases for the faction itself, but had seen Spiral Corps stood up, connected and usable with the vanilla Tohaa, then the fluff introduction to what is apparently happening now, squatting the whole faction. It's like getting your girlfriend excited that you've reserved a table in the fanciest restaurant in town for an evening two months from now, buying her flowers and being nice to her, then keeping silent about your intentions all the time, having her invest in your relationship and expect everything to be OK and when she finally arrives, you are sat there with an attorney and divorce papers for her to sign. It's a complete asshole move from CB, especially towards Tohaa players.
No, we didn't – when you buy a video game it comes with the unspoken understanding that one day your game will break, your system will break, you'll get bored of the game and never touch it again, you'll loan it to a friend and you'll never see it again or, more likely, the world will continue to turn and there will be newer, more relevant games and technology that "invalidate" the old. Your minis are not "invalidated". they are just no longer current. just like those old video games. And just like my Snes that I play every weekend, my old minis will be just as relevant as I want them to be through proxying. I cannot speak to CB's intention, only my reaction. I'd like to wait until their official post or communication about it before passing judgement
I see a lot of people saying they want to wait for CB to chime in. Seems reasonable. But what if the truth is the rumor? Does that change your opinion? Does everyone just move the goalposts again or find silver linings? What would it take to be happy with this course of action?
I asked my local warcor about this and he said Koni is off sick at the moment, which is why we haven't heard something already.
I shrug, grumble under my breath for a moment, grouse with my local meta once or twice, enjoy the minis I have, using those that find a new nome in that new home, and proxying the rest as something else. I look for the options to keep enjoying the game (the “silver lining”) rather than throwing away things I enjoy. Others can divest themselves, or whatever they feel is necessary to show their displeasure. If they carry on for what seems to me to be too long or become too strident in their cries for appeasement, I’ll push back with cariño.
Looks like we have different but also fair points of view about treating 'consumer products'. Some think the minis we buy are not everlasting, and they also have 'depreciation cost' like others. In the meantime, some think good intellectual products should run long regardless of its monetary value. It's good to see people talking and sharing their opinion, not just ranting and hurling cocky nuances at each other.
The release of Spiral Corps (as NA2 instead of Tohaa sectorial), coupled with the fluff updates and retirement of half the Tohaa miniature range, made it pretty clear that Vanilla Tohaa would be at least remain unsupported with new releases in N4, as was speculated in many discussions here on the board – and the same is true about MRRF, NCA, SAA and QK. But if that rumor is true and they won't be included in the N4 Army Builder in the first place, that adds a new quality to the situation. If sectorial related units don't make it into N4 in their respective Vanilla factions either, that would be just nasty and upsetting. Tohaa had it coming with a replacement all but officially in place, but I just can't see them getting rid of Chasseurs and Djanbazan. In any case, this should be made clear asap to dispel any suspicion of willfull deception on CB's part.
To be fair you can not like a decision, and yet still see the sense in it from someone else's point of view. Like understanding someone can't always explain a decision before it's even been made - and therefore some things they said before making new decisions might turn out to be incorrect.
I say this as a tohaa player: you might be slightly over-invested if that's the analogy that makes the most sense to you.
No, you might not remember the x86 days, otherwise I don't know why you'd say that. If I had a copy of a PC game, it will work for decades, which is effectively forever. Even three or four OS upgrades later you will still be able to run them. Hell, I still ran MS-DOS games on Win2k. No, they are invalid. There are no more rules that represent the whole faction. There's nothing I can reasonably proxy with Tohaa. I can use a third of them in Spiral Corps as a cheap knockoff of the vanilla faction and that's it. I can't reasonably play Ariadna with them. They do not fit unit formats for Shasvastii. I'm judging the lack of communication. I'm judging the false communication beforehand ("year of the Tohaa", "N4 release as a complete whole", etc.). I'm judging the fact that they drop a bombshell like this in obscure places but do not communicate openly with the whole of the community. I'm judging the fact that I can't watch Bostria's videos anymore because I cannot trust what he's saying will happen, been burned way too many times. So, in a week or so, they will release a video with a cheerful Bostria telling us all how great it is that PanO loses two sectorials, gets a sixth one in turn, MRRF is gone, QK is gone, Tohaa is gone. All going the path of Exrah. Or worse, he will tell us all will be fine, nothing will get removed from N4. And I will trust these words once I see the units in N4 Army and click on them. Not sooner. Happy enough? Take N3 profiles of Tohaa, paste them directly into N4 Army. Split all the skills that need to be split, just replace them with their new phrasing. Don't even bother with points. Just keep them playable. Worse scenario but still fine with me - keep those five factions as "not-Mercenaries", an optional for ITS. Some events can use these "legacy factions", but by default in ITS they are not present as they've not been updated. A TO can still choose to allow them and the event will still be ITS legal then. That'd be fine.
Of course I'm not that invested. It's supposed to convey the "bait and switch" type of nasty deceit the CB actions currently stink of. And we see more and more people above catching the same stench now, too. I'd also love to get a clarification from CB and hear that all is fine and that the "divorce" is just so that we can afford a yacht and a house with two credit lines, not just one for the married couple. But still I will trust again only once my ass is on that yacht and I have keys to our new house in my pocket, if you get my meaning.
The same people who said wait and see will say that it doesn't matter, once it's confirmed, of course.
