1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Defense in Tunguska

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by stramarvelous, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. stramarvelous

    stramarvelous Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    6
    Hi guys!
    This is my Tunguska period, so I'm in analizing all the aspect of this sectorial and now its the turn of the defense.
    How do you usually defense??
    We don't have a strong mid defense, except for the jammer hecklers?
    I try to use at least one or maybe two of them but then?
    Do you always use a grenzer (missile or sniper) or securitate for long aro?
    I've seen that agaist many treats they are not so efficient but I'm here to listen to your more expert voices.
    So
    How do you defend in Tunguska?
     
  2. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3,006
    Likes Received:
    5,383
    Heckler Jammers, Hollow Man ML in a link, Puppetactica Minelayer. Usually tends to find this is relatively solid.
     
    PillageIdiot likes this.
  3. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    hecklers are ok. They are strong against some enemies, and weak against some others, and because the average cost in the sectorial, they are not enough.

    In my opinion, TJC is an average at deffending, not good, not bad. 2 flashbots, one deploy zone minelayer, jammers and the core (feverbach or misile launchers) are our main defenses, which are ok. I think TJC is better on the offensive than in deffensive game
     
    jfunkd and PillageIdiot like this.
  4. PillageIdiot

    PillageIdiot Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2019
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    17
    I would agree what's already been said, just add a couple of things.

    First, I don't find the Grenzer to be a worthwhile ARO. The odds of scoring a kill with him over the Securitate sniper are low enough that I don't think the sacrifice of 9 to 11 extra points is worth it. Now that said the grenzer sniper is pretty good in the active turn. But purely for ARO, I'd rather save the points and use the Securitate since both of them are likely to die anyway.

    Second, Perseus in a link is actually a really good ARO piece against very specific factions (basically anything that doesn't crutch on MSV 2). He can slow down dog warriors with long range breaker rifle shots but then use double PHYS 16 smoke grenades to protect against elite gunfighters. Just don't leave him out against Rui Shi or Intruders.

    Third, your repeater net can be a pretty good defense. A lot of alpha strike units are either HI or remotes, and forcing them to reset can significantly slow them down.

    Generally, though, my philosophy on first turn is to survive the alpha strike with as many orders as possible, not to actually do damage.
     
    Savnock likes this.
  5. Jason839

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2018
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    115
    Best defense I’ve found in Tunguska is Hiding. If you are going 2nd, hide in places that are going to force the opponent to spend most of their orders getting to your guys and then they only have a couple orders to do anything.
     
  6. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,089
    Likes Received:
    1,991
    FO puppetbots seem a generally solid defence. B2 flashpulse can slow down or stall an attack if they don't pay it enough respect (or shotgun if they get close), hard and annoying to kill with small profile, two effective wounds and two unconscious states and don't lose an order when they go down.
     
    jfunkd likes this.
  7. jfunkd

    jfunkd hard forum hittin Carlos
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    598
    Likes Received:
    948
    I assume what the OP is talking about is starting a match reactive and what units you include to stop an alpha strike and how you deploy and play them. This is an interesting topic for me with TJC, and I have a long winded post about it.

    Way TL:DR – TJC needs to look past the disposable ARO and gamble on its heavy hitter’s statlines and good layered deployment for the best 1st turn reactive defense.

    I’m going to echo some of what was said before in this thread.

    Firstly I agree that this is how most players will be comfortable viewing TJC’s defensive capabilities, but I think this is where you start thinking about it; not TJC’s final answer on the subject. It’s not far off from my view but the caveat is that TJC’s defense can be much deeper than its limited AVA disposable ARO units.

    The main issue here is if you accept that TJC only has these units for defense, and they are all needed to defend, then all TJC lists end up looking alike and not having room to take the mission critical units or the heavy hitters that are the stars of the show.

    I’m not a fan of the “list template” for defense. Some of my other posts highlight how I like to build for the event scenarios and lead me to some odd unit combinations that may not look like it covers all the bases, but yet every unit was chosen for multiple roles it can potentially play on the table. The list template will end up suffering if it doesn’t start reactive, or maybe it lacks specialists in efficient deployment positions for easy scoring. Regardless, to fit in the “standard” TJC defense, which I have heard referred to as the “Heckler Tax”, is very restricting. At some point in your list building you’re going to come to the conclusion that if you don’t take the two Heckler Jammers that you can instead fit a Puppetactica Troupe, (or similarly more useful unit) for the scenario. That’s a bit of a bad example points wise, but work with me here.

    This comment is excellent, it gets to where I feel that TJC needs to embrace the strengths of the army and play it big or go home. TJC profiles almost universally pay high costs for the unit’s stat lines; inevitably they will need to lean on these stats in the Reactive turn. The good news is there are a lot of good stat lines in TJC, and this opens up a lot of ARO potential. The bad news is expensive units will have to be used as part of your layered defense strategy and will be at risk.

    Perseus is a great example, but there are other units that wouldn’t traditionally be included in the ARO unit discussion but they should be. Many expensive TJC units are capable of stalling out Rambos, and TJC needs to maximize every tool it fields because it can’t field multiple cheap units like other factions, and frequently only fields one combat group.

    This is an good philosophy about starting reactive. My idea is you want as much as you can to stall out your opponent's activation with units that can survive the FtF. You don't have to win the roll, you just need to survive and if possible create another speed bump for the next activation.

    To me a lot of TJC’s turn 1 reactive defense is having a cohesive plan with the list before the match starts and is also a product of good deployment after you see the table and know the threats your opponent can bring to the table.

    I don't wholly agree with this for the way I play TJC. If you concede the entire table to your opponent it can be very problematic in scenarios like Supplies. You need to have some control of the action on the reactive. Making them waste orders to get to your guys is a great idea, but you also have to make at least a token effort to prevent scoring. Forcing your opponent into over extending to do damage is a solid plan, but I feel you have to have some control of the board.

    Anyways, on to some of my unit analysis for defense…. Finally, right?… sorry I tend to go on, but I think players miss out on the potential and TJC’s need to use the power pieces as part of their defense.

    As for the Hecklers, they are good and two of the profiles are tailored for the ARO role. IMO Overreliance on the Jammer is a trap. I personally prefer the BSG profile for passive defense, or one Jammer one BSG. The Jammer isn’t a bad profile, but the fast panda and the Jammer in the active turn on camo are the reasons I prefer it, rather than for ARO. The Jammer on a WIP 13 platform isn’t nearly as good as it is on the Mutts. It’s too easy to sneak past, terrain reliant, and easy to shrug off for a lot of units. Also remember from your opponent’s perspective every camo in TJC is a Jammer until it’s revealed. The overhype of Jammers helps up here because many opponents will avoid ZoC to avoid potential isolation, wasting orders. All of that said, Hecklers are not an auto-include in TJC, there are many more options.

    The Securitate Feuerbach or any of the Grenzers are solid downfield AROs. I prefer the Grenzer ML if I can as it’s a high risk activation for any unit to engage it directly. I generally end up with a lone Feuerbach looking downrange and the HMG or Spitfire looking down a shorter or ARO layered firelane. These long range AROs can be good for cleaning up warbands on the reactive by using Mary or any unit that can lure the impetuous orders into their LoF.

    The Hollow Man ML is in the same boat here, super high risk engagement for the active player and he will rarely actually kill the Hollow Man outright.

    Minelayer Puppetmaster is solid, but not midfield. It’s going to cover a flank, or keep warbands honest if they make a deep run. It’s a great unit though in TJC because of its cost and counterintel. Without the Troupe it can go into midfield and create some area denial with the mines.

    The Puppets are fantastic units to ARO speedbump with. Cheap as chips for 2 wounds and B2 AROs that can also dodge well. They frequently stall out rambos, sometimes even killing high ARM units for me, and I really want my opponent shooting them instead of units that cost me orders when they go down. They are usually right on the edge of my DZ covering obvious firelanes that have nice views past midfield.

    Surprisingly not mentioned yet is the Lunokhod. The Koalas are decent area denial that can be put where you need it after deployment and this REM is fantastic for attacking units in the midfield late game. Very little wants to walk into HSG/HFT range on one of these bad boys, so it often can eat up several activations to deal with it on the best attack vector. The repeater also complicates matters for many attackers.

    Flash pulse bots, no brainer here. Cheap cheerleaders with ARO potential on 17 with mimetism and fast moving repeaters, they are solid AF in TJC. It’s a pain when they face off versus Total Immunity units though.

    Spektr. Yeah, I said it. The mines, the gotcha ARO from a BSG or MSR, these guys have a lot of options. They also dodge on a 12 with TO camo. I’m reluctant to reveal from Hidden Deployment to ARO, but there is a time and place for it when your opponent is getting deeper into his order pool and over extending his actions. You can also spring this ARO when the attacker has moved into position for another FtF engagement.

    Mary Problems is an ARO toolbox. With FD1 she can often be the 1st unit your opponent encounters on his way to devastate your order pool. The Zapper is the defining gear here, but she dodges well and also isn’t that vulnerable to WIP 13 KHD because of Lightning. ODD means that she will sometimes just live if she uses the Zapper in ARO. She’s like a Heckler on steroids, but with only one wound she may only get one opportunity to ARO. I find her to be an expensive, but sometimes needed speedbump in low order lists. I’d rather not use her this way, but sometimes it needs to be done.

    Perseus, even solo, is often part of my layered ARO defense. Usually he defends a short lane in cover where he can get decent odds on his breaker, or default to smoke if needed. He can often stall out a few activations easily. Like with Mary though, you need to be aware if your opponent is going to run MSV-2 and not expose him to it if at all possible.

    If you’re going to run the Kriza HMG then if you can leverage him to ARO, you should. He’s pretty good because of his stat line and full auto. You don’t want him as part of your front line, but if he can be behind a couple of other AROs covering a flank in cover; then with his ARM either a dodge or BS ARO is possible from him. He’s almost always good for taking at least one activation before he has to fall back or go prone to avoid being killed. He’s way better in the active turn, so you don’t want to be stupid with his deployment, but it’s also a shame if he’s in total cover and the rest of your army get hit hard. Just be smart about it and he can participate in your defense.

    The Interventor is a risky play in defense, but I think a lot of players miss out on how effective the White Noise ARO can be on certain troops. Keep well aware of your opponent’s KHD capabilities and don't but if you can get a MSV unit to move through a repeater you can sometimes shut down an attack vector. This is a rare opportunity, but be aware enough to spot and use it when you can.

    Zondmates are good flank defense starting reactive to prevent AD units getting the easy walk on near the DZ.

    Reaktion zonds are something I don't give enough credit to or use often enough, but they are a good unit to rely on for defense in TJC. We don't have much in this points bracket that is this effective in ARO and it's solid on offense too.
     
    borisgreymenace likes this.
  8. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    1,492
    Likes Received:
    1,656
    Flash pulse bots, Lunokhods to bodyguard the high values pieces, Grenzer MSR, Securitate Feuerbach, TR bot, hecklers(kinda, far more useful in active), puppet master.

    Things to avoid, Securitate MSR, and any ML that isn't on a Hollowman.
     
  9. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    1,492
    Likes Received:
    1,656
    It constantly amazes me how often this gets overlooked, especially in TJC. In my experience it is damn near impossible to mount a meaningful defense with out it and the game becomes significantly harder. The Lunokhod single handedly mitigates some of the larger problems that people have with the sectorial such as obvious LT syndrome and keeping the PM alive agaisnt anything that isn't long range specfire.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation