Speculation: Possible Changes to Units with the new Design Paradigm

I don't even play Haqq and that was the first unit I thought of

 

Honestly, with the new modular nature that they are leaning towards, they can do literally anything in terms of skills.

I am a bit worried about non-camo mimetism-only gunfighters like Kaplans. They may very well drop their Mimetism down to -1 due to them not being stealth-oriented troops. Also, it does affect the way fire ammo works against camo troops since right now it downgrades camo to mimetism, and if a TO-camo unit is going to have mimetism -6, it means the -6 modifier is going to stay instead of downgrading to -3. I also think that in light of these changes some heavier TO-camo units like Hac Tao and Swiss Guard are going to either lose Hidden Deployment, or the camo marker or stealth.

By contrast, that would make MSV1 units more interesting provided that piece of equipment doesn't get changed. This would mean that, whatever level of Mimetism the target has, the visor's gonna negate it all, even if it's -6 or -9.

 

I would imagine msv would become msv +3, msv +6, where the number indicates how much of a mimetism bonus the visor negates.

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I also immediately thought about Tuareg - I think CB is going to differ them from the more advanced TO units, like Spektres or Proxys. And I'm a bit concerned about what will happen.
TBH I would rather loose the Hidden Deployment than not having -6 to be hit... Still we'll see.

I think that this is a good way to differ some units, like making Libertos sligthly worse - they should be changed a bit.

I'm very interested how our CAMO guys will be changed - which will still be having all the perks of the current camo and which will loose some of those advantages. Like what will be left for our humble, cheap and great Hunzakut.

I hope that the changes won't be to vast, because I really like our infiltrators (and the whole Haqq) now. And big changes can affect my army lists and my almost - painted army ... Good that I have most of our CAMOed guys painted ;)

Over all moving away from nested skills is good, but I see few problems - like more and more special rules under a unit profile. Which not only will make them less easy to read but also a bit overwhelming for new guys.


PozdRawiam / Greetings

 

I thought the same thing too, but since we have Code One coming in for the new guys, the overwhelming bits can be saved for when they are all ready to level up. :)

 

I'm kind of unenthused. Its useful for teaching the game to have certain concepts function as a single whole. For example, you can teach camo, and then for TO camo just say "its like regular camo except...” and things work out. Plus there are a LOT of units in this game, so it helps to be able to just remember the rules for something like TO camo and then apply them as required, instead of having a lot of extra unit specific details beyond the ones we have now.

Still, it might be nice to unpack the “hidden” skills like stealth on martial arts.

 

In our chat one players tell us that mimetism will have different value, like mimetism - 3 or - 5
I hope that n4 will have fixed value like n3

 

I know Carlos said as an example they could have mimetism - 5, but I don't see CB going that way. Having every mod a multiple of 3 makes it quicker to calculate final attribute value. I mean, nothing's stopping them going to multiples of 2, or 4, but 3 is the number we're all used too.

As for haqq camo, I see haqqislam as being a faction that very well could end up with not many changes to our camo going forward. I more see the heavy infantry camo/TO as being the ones that are going to lose a skill here or there. Units such as the Swiss guard or the hac Tao. They already have the benefit of being HI, why not take away something that makes them a bit less of a brick wall, but also make them a tad cheaper? The LI camo in haqq (and other factions) leans on their camo to survive, so to make their camo a bit weaker would defeat the purpose of the unit in question. At least that's how I feel.

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I am also curious about what cb will do with msv.....

 

I was thinking on that earlier. I could see doing away with levels and just turning it to straight modifiers given what we now know. Possibly with a change to low-zero visibility areas as well

 

Re: Swiss vs Hac Tao. This is actually a good way to differentiate between the two. Drop HD on Swiss. This gives you the better shooter or the HD. It would lean into the idea of YJ's HI being special. Particularly if the Cutter keeps HD (which I think it should).

 

Except that leaves enemy players able to counter-deploy the Swiss Guard, and PanO really does not need an even harder time breaking out of its DZ, what with the ever-increasing number of Core MSV Snipers, camo spam and the faction's bad trade power. I'd actually argue that the Hac Tao would benefit more from an enhanced Surprise Shot for improved power when they reveal, especially the ML variant. Haqq could possibly benefit from this across the board; it's an army themed around outmanouevering opponents and taking down key defenses before smashing them with Ghulams, so it could possibly use Camo/Surprise -6 across the board instead of putting levels in Mimetism. This would make them equal to conventional Camo/Mimetism -3 on an opening shot from Marker state, but worse in sustained gunfights, and downright horrifying if they can flank you under marker by inflicting a -9 penalty to the out-of-LOS Dodge. Make them a little cheaper and you have a very distinct offensively-biased, low-cost Skirmisher corps who can excel at kicking the legs out from under the enemy so the Infantry can crush them.

 

You're basically arguing that PanO needs top tier HI so that they don't need to play into their faction strength (ie TAGs). I think designing PanO so that a TAG is usually the optimal solo-gunfighter is a good way to emphasise faction identity. I'm not saying do that in isolation BTW, but if you pair it with things like making Stun a -3 to all skills (ie no longer prevent attacks) or make it able to be Engineered, then TAGs become a lot harder to lock into a DZ. You can also do things that lower overall order counts (for which there are many suggestions), making Tac Awareness on TAGs a real point of advantage.

The problem with improved Surprise Shot for Hac Tao is that it does nothing against the threats these units (Hac Tao, Swiss) are already bad against (which, as you point out, is SSL2 MSV AROs) and just makes them more dominant vs threats they are already good against.

I'm not sold on Swiss losing HD BTW, more just pointing it out as the sort of option you get to emphasise faction differences between otherwise very similar troops. I do agree that you couldn't do it as the only change you made.

For units like Tauregs (drop Mimmetism to -3, up Surprise Attack to -6) I think you make a good point. These sorts of units have the ability to choose targets, so can exploit the better Surprise Shot. This makes an interesting point of difference between say a Taureg, Dasyu, Spektr and Crocman.

 

Close, what PanO needs is top-tier gunfighters. This proficiency comes at the cost of Smoke, Warbands and most Skirmisher access, badly cutting their indirect options, so I'm always wary of anything that could slow them down even more. TAGs exemplify that high-speed aggressive, long-range playstyle, but aren't always appropriate due to cost or scenario or even just player preference, so there need to be valid options across most unit types that can clear the game's toughest AROs or else PanO just doesn't get to play.

Where this comes back to Haqq is that they're not the Light Infantry faction, they're the Synergy faction, relying on all of their units' narrow advantages to score victories where the enemy is weak and enhance their own strengths. Usually a Haqq supersoldier won't stand up to their peers in other armies in the numbers game, but have a quirk or two that lets them exploit the board or the enemy for advantages. I suspect that most of them will remain unchanged because of this, although some skills may be cut and replaced, because most of them are quite necessary for their roles or both simple and flavourful. If there's going to be some big change across Haqq it's most likely to come from Religious Troop being simplified to Courage.

 

I'd kinda argue that if TAGs aren't appropriate due to player preference then maybe they should play something other than PanO. But although I take your point and agree that PanO needs premiere gunfightera, I honestly don't think that losing HD would make that big of an issue for a Swiss HMG compared to the drop in cost. The biggest impact would be defensively on the Swiss ML IMO.

 

I would like if Regeneration and Automedikit were consolidated into a single skill too. Religious Troop removed in favor of Courage would be very good.

 

But most of our guys with Religious are also Courageous. :D

 

I actually like how Religious and Courage work differently, but that's because I see being able to Guts as a strict advantage.

The issue is the amount of units that have both, which makes Religious entirely pointless.

Agree on Regen and Automedkit. Consolidate them and add Shock Immunity to the units you want to keep it.

 

Regeneration already grants shock immunity