Yes, higher crit won, and tied die rolls went to the ... raw stat, I think. Been way too long since I looked at the N2 rules.
I actually like the idea of CTs having more uses and being generated every turn. It could be something where the WIP of your LT determines how many CTs you generate at your order count phase: 12-13 WIP: 1 CT 14-15 WIP: 2 CTs 16+ WIP: 3 CTs Just spitballing. Could ajust it to be less granular. In any case, if you had something like this it would make high WIP lieutenants more interesting, making it somewhat of a High Risk high reward situation where you could double or even triple your CTs for a game, at the cost of taking a more obvious lieutenant. If you paired that with the possibility of using a CT to increase your atribute by 3 (I would say getting a +3 MOD to the relevant atribute before a roll is the best way to do it), we could see a game with a lot more control over random factors.
EI aspects would become quite a bit stronger in this scenario as they can move their Wip to any model with a cube or G:autotool. It's very unlikely to remove that score completely off the board.
It also has the potential to reduce the ability to hide a Lt. if you have multiple options with different WIP values as your opponent could start to eliminate possibilities based on your CT gain. Don't get me wrong, though. I'm all for more CT uses, but I like that they are a very limited resource and I don't think tying a loosening of those limits to Lt. WIP is the way to go mechanically, even if it sounds good lore-wise. Adding that we have Advanced Command as a skill as well...
I hope this isn't too much of a tangent. But this here is some good spitballing. There's many ways this can effect the game in ways I consider positive with a few cleverly written rules. I mainly thought of this due to Sabin76 over here. And really it's easy enough to keep your CT's as a precious resource, and really get a lot more depth from the system, and the LT system. "gain UP to x tokens" is the kicker here. This means that higher WIP Lt's can choose to take 1 token, which any Lt can do. So do you go for those extra CTs and show your hand to a skilled opponet, or do you help keep his identity hidden. We can also keep CT's more limited by making them generate fresh at the beginning of each turn. No banking, find a use for them. So how does this trickle down into the game? Well first off, we can go ahead and change CT's to making up to X irregular orders regular, instead of just 1. This means that higher WIP LT's can now manage more irregular troops, this means that some armies such as CHA aren't leashed to having a character as their LT. So if you're on retreat, having a better guy in charge vs just a safer guy can keep more of your models in the fight. CT's giving flat stat buffs I'm a bit mixed on. CT's have the theme of being for command and control, of foiling your enemy's plans and executing yours. On the other hand this can help alleviate the burden on crits being the great equalizer (see I can wrangle it back to crits!) when it comes to brutal BS scores and heavy modifiers. Conversely I can't see coordinated orders making the cut for Code1. Coordinated orders are one of those mechanics that can be extremely intimidating to newcomers, can take a bit to digest rules wise if you don't have someone to teach you, but offer an slew of problem solving to many situations. Flat stat buffs might be a bit easier for newer players. Just some thoughts on an idea I actually really like for the game. I'm up for a wider variety of viable LT options anonymity vs whatever ability they have. I don't think 1 selfish order and a initiative roll really offsets the very dire consequences of losing your LT.
The risk of flat stat buffs is that it risks pushing increasing crit chances through stats over 20, which is why I'm more in favour of a CT being able to fudge a single dice after the fact, which can also have an additional rule that reduces crit impact if necessary in the N4 system.
I would just negate Armor/BTS values of a model. So auto hit is still a thing but especially heavily armored units will not benefit from their high ARM/BTS values, while light armored units still have a chance of coming out alive. This simulates hiting an armored unit at their "weak spot". A 20 damage value as proposed in the first post only leads to light units being even weaker and maybe useless.
Except the general consensus is that ARM in the mid range is WAAY overcosted. Or rather, having 1 ARM is amazing for the cost and Light Infantry really don't need help that much.
20 DAM still gives the vast majority of light units improved odds of surviving a crit over now (5/15/20% depending on how it's implemented). Light units still ignore / suffer disproportionately weak effects from specialised anti-Heavy unit AROs (Hacking, Cybermines, EM, ADHS). One of the things that drives players to unit spam is the ease with which high-cost attributes are ignored. If you pay a significant cost for marginal improvements in survivability that are commonly circumvented, you end up deciding just not to bother. ARM is something you pay a lot for, circumventing it undermines the utility of this cost. The result is that, as Sabin says, low-mid ranged ARM has very little utility relative to cost. Light units will still benefit from lower costs. Which allows more units in a list, which allows more orders. A slight decrease in relative survivability won't change that calculus.
Ok i get your points. But this also means they have to adjust those things to improve the game. And as soon as they do improve those points, my idea might be valid again. I guess wheter the 20 Damage or the negate armor concept is better, is decided by how they fix the other problems. For example i would also add a fatigue system that reduces effectivness of units that get activated a lot.
Just to clarify a bit on that - Extra Wounds are great tho. They start to make some light investment into higher ARM/BTS worth it (at least compared to single W troops like high ARM/BTS MI). 2W with ARM 3 is pretty sturdy for the combined cost. Going higher than that is going to be increasingly expensive, so you'll want even more Wounds, heavy MODs to go along with it or a generally amazing Profile you want protected by passive stats. A Tik, Hac Tao or Achilles like their defensive stats since they compliment the rest of the Profile. Mobile Brigada, Maggie or a Lizard are underwhelming because they do have a lot of stats but nothing to amplify them beyond the initial raw point value. Imho this can mostly be fixed be reworking the increasing flat cost to serveral "passive" stats - CC, BS, PH and ARM - and make increasing stats cheaper or flat increase per point like WIP and BTS. The difference should be redistributed to Skill and Gear Synergy. Camo already scales with BS. CC ability and PH is very dependant on CC Skills and CC/PH-based Weapons, so having high CC/PH itself should be cheaper. The cost should come when you start adding DA CCWs and Grenades to utilize those stats. Probably a very unpopular oppinion is static gun costs. A Keisotsu pays the same 8 points for a HMG as a Swiss Guard. This is offset by SWC and we could argue that's enough. But it's undeniable that a BS15 TO trooper is going to use the same gun better than a BS10 guy. The massive downside to this is that dynamic scaling is going to be a lot of effort and will remain with it's own problems either way. How should we factor Fireteams into these calculations for example? A somewhat conservative approach would be to do a bit of both. Leave Weapons alone, they remain SWC regulated with static cost. Tune down CC, BS, PH and ARM scaling a bit but keep it static, not dependent on the cost of other things. And add one factor of cost scaling to Skills/Equipment. Example time. Mobile Brigada would get cheaper for: Not having synergy with their increased CC, BS, PH and ARM. That would strip about 6 points from them. A Kriza Borac would: Pay less for his CC, BS, PH and ARM. But would pay a lot more points for Full Auto L2, a Skill that Provides a BS MOD and Burst MOD, thus should scale in cost with BS and ARM and the weapon he carries. The HMG would be around the same cost as now, however the other weapon choices would be 2-3 points cheaper. CC Warbands would mostly get a slight price hike (1-2 points max if at all). Having CC Weapons and Smoke Grenades double tips with their high CC and PH. A Muttawiah would pay a good bit extra for his WIP15 Jammer over now and an extra point or two for WIP being the only "offensive" stat that matters for DTWs in the form of Intuitive Attacks. Hungries on the other hand don't have CC Skills or Smoke so would even drop a point. Mostly a lot of work for CB as this requires rebalancing costs and tweaking a Profile here and there in the progress to make everything work with a new formula. Generally speaking huge statblocks get cheaper high stat<->Skill/Equipment synergy Profiles end up with a (slight) increase standard archetypes like the "gunner with Mimetism" stay mostly the same.
I like static gun costs. A HMG should not be more expensive for a High skill user because he/she already paid for the skills. Then kill the fireteam BS bonus, the game was better when BS14 was scary and not getting routinely slotted by BS16 AROs.
The idea is synergy though, right? If Camo costs more on a high BS model, surely more burst should cost more, no?
@Teslarod one more problem with static gun cost is CB cheating their own formula by making some units that are have stats of MI or even close to HI, having LI discount on SWC ( example, take your pick in Haqq ). From start I found it weird that synergistic combos don't cost extra, so let's say Infiltration is 2 points and Camo is 2 points, unit with Infiltration + Camo should not pay 4 points, but more like 6 for that combo. And then Minelayer on a unit like that should definitely be more expensive than on something like Acontacimento Regular. It just seems logical, but it's probably too much effort to implement.
Everything should synergise by default. And we can clearly see with the Liberto and Uhlan that it's not the high quality camo troops that dominate the meta.
Could you give examples of this? Both Daofei and Zhencha seems to pay exactly 15 points for Camo+Infil than comparable troops without those two skills.
I cannot. I was under the impression that this was the case from other threads that I'm apparently misremembering. I've never dived into the points formula myself.
