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How do Chess Clocks work for Infinity in Germany and other metas using them?

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Derpidicus, Feb 10, 2020.

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  1. Derpidicus

    Derpidicus Member

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    I'm likely to have some travel this summer that will bring me to Germany, the Netherlands, France, and the UK. For those metas using the chess clock how exactly does that work so I can get a few practice games before I travel?

    I did a query here in the forums and see lots of discussion about whether they are good but not the actual explanation of how they are used.

    Thank you!
     
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  2. Derpidicus

    Derpidicus Member

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    Great, thanks! The ARO mechanic was the question and it's answered quite directly. I really appreciate it's still a mutual collaboration phase!
     
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  3. Zewrath

    Zewrath Elitist Jerk

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    Please make this shit mandatory especially in Spain, where CB can't figure out how to make people hold their deadlines when they play.
    There's no excuse for this really, there's literally no justification for why you feel like you should be allowed to use vastly more time than your opponent.

    The reason why I mention this, is because instead of chessclocks, TO's and CB are using stupid band-aid solutions like Tactical Window or Limited Insertion, which shits on several armies and makes great events not something you can take serious.
     
  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yup. Main reason I don't want to go to the Interplanetario. Not interested in just getting 2 turns in while my opponent dawdles. I usually move pretty decisively in Infinity.

    But seriously, TOs need to also provide 2 hour rounds for the game, preferably 2.5.
     
  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    These are the rules we use for chess clocks in Canberra, Australia. Very slightly different to the german standard in that the end of time on a chess clock only stops a player from spending any further orders, not taking AROs:

    CHESS CLOCKS
    For this event, chess clocks should be used as follows:
    - players start the game with 1 Hour
    - a player's time will run from the start of their deployment (i.e. start the clock once you've rolled for deployment, selected sides, moved your models to your table side and are ready to begin deploying)
    - a player's clock runs for the entirety of their active turn, including when resolving AROs and face to face rolls, unless their opponent needs time to consider an ARO. Only flip the clock if a decision takes more than approx. 10 seconds to be made, and be sure to flip it back once the ARO is ready to resolve.
    - if a rules question needs to be resolved by a judge before play can continue, pause the clock. Remember to resume it when play continues!
    - once a player is out of time, if they're the active player, resolve the current order, then their turn ends. From that point on they cannot spend orders (but can declare AROs as normal).
    - In general the goal here is to make sure everyone gets to finish their games every round and has approximately the same amount of time as their opponents to play – not to add another stressor for people to manage. Stalling or aggressive clock-flipping will be monitored and sanctioned appropriately.


    To note: we've never had any issues with people attempting to abuse the presence of clocks in any way, and they've been super helpful for a few of our players trying to learn to run lists that they'd otherwise struggle with from a time perspective.
     
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  6. Vaulsc

    Vaulsc Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for making this thread! Such an important issue.
     
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  7. Nasca

    Nasca Member

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    @Derpidicus: If you do not participate at a tournament in Germany it could also be that you don't face a chess clock. Normally we play with them during a tournament or tournament prep game.
     
  8. SoEinBasti

    SoEinBasti ShasBasti

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    Nonetheless, if you are in Germany let us know. I am sure that we'll find a gaming group near you to experience the hospitable German meta ;-)
     
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  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Typically around here when games are assigned 2 hours we always get games that don't have time to finish and chess clocks usually result in lopsided games where it'll finish up to an hour early because one player ran out of time and the other didn't need to use all of theirs.

    It's also very much a skill to play with a clock so as to not accidentally allow your opponent to play on your turn which happens to me frequently.

    Generally speaking a game of Infinity that's given 2,5 hours will result in both players being able to take 3 turns and for one of the assisting TOs to wrap their game up and start pushing the inevitable slow table. Unfortunately 2,5 hours a game also mean a tournament will run a noticeable amount of time late and that can be hard for family people.

    As a foot note: I haven't noticed TW games being any faster than non-TW games. LI games usually only get faster if one side folds as the format also tend to get people to try and score with Cores.
     
  10. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    This is very much a motivator for us locally - even an extra twenty minutes per round more than extends the entire day by an hour.
     
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  11. WarHound

    WarHound Well-Known Member

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    In the UK we don't use Chess clocks very often (if at all!), but then our tournament scene runs players to a 90min game (120mins for some metas).

    As a result, the UK tournament scene very rarely encounters significant delays in games, and the TOs are quick to respond to slow-play or long games, with either reminders for the players or extraneous circumstances being dealt with.
     
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  12. Derpidicus

    Derpidicus Member

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    If the trip happens I'll likely be in Hamburg and Wismar. Wismar is just to visit family friends so I'll have the most free time then!
     
  13. Derpidicus

    Derpidicus Member

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    That's very good to know. I often finish my rounds early in the U.S. but typically only 15 minutes early. I'll have to practice for that too. I'm hoping to be in Basingstoke in April and may be able to swing the dates around Firestorm Incursion in Cardiff. I'd love to do a Satellite in the UK!
     
  14. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    American who had to adapt to the German Furor Teutonicus (and Spanish at the EIC) way of using chess clocks, here:

    It's great. And I'm usually the slow guy. I really appreciate having a quantifiable reminder of how I need to prioritize certain decisions, wrap things up quickly, and keep my awareness focused when it comes to AROs.

    I'm strongly in favor of chess clocks, and would really love to see them at Interplanetario. If you can require people have tape measures, you can require cheap chess clocks. Hell, have a few loaners for dorks who forget theirs (again, that's me). A kind vendor (who I cannot recall) EIC did a really cool thing by giving us all mobile-phone stands made of MDF (with our ITS nick!!!). That and the app, and you are good.

    As for Tactical Window: It's another way to play the game. The very presence of huge horde armies really stretches the order economy in a way that screws inherently low-model-count armies by comparison. TW shifts that back moderately, and in a pretty balanced way. Fitting into 15 orders with an optimal build is still possible for any army in the game.
     
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  15. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    On this topic can anyone recommend their favourite ways to use a chess clock.

    I tried practicing with an app but then realised that I normally wanted to look at army or with wiki on my phone and the 3 apps I tried would all stop if you minimised it to open another app.

    I'd be keen to try again but it seems like apps are not the way to go for me :(
     
  16. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Ideally I'd recommend a physical chess clock rather than an app. They tend to run around $20. If you need to use an app, you'll want a dedicated device for it - you can't really co-run it on your phone with army.

    As a cheap alternative, if you're just looking to practice to get yourself playing faster, you can just buy the cheapest kitchen timer you can find, and play with your turns on a timer. Generally I'd suggest giving yourself something like 15 mins for deployment, 20 mins for first turn, 15 mins for second turn and 10 mins for third turn. In many respects it's a better teaching tool than a chess clock because it doesn't require active management, just set it at the start of each turn.

    Chess clocks are better in an event where you've got time running for both players and an overall round time to stick to, and where you want to be able to flex around a bit in terms of how you spend your time, but just for learning to play more quickly, any old timer can be very helpful.
     
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  17. WarHound

    WarHound Well-Known Member

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    Basingstoke is my home town, so hit me up when you're about!
     
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  18. zapp

    zapp Well-Known Member

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    My problem with the clock is only that it's sometimes hard to remember pressing the button and then you realize you played 10 minutes on your opponents time. Very hard to sort that out once you made a mistake with the clock.
    Especially if you are forced to stop playing after 1h even if the overall game has still time (because you or your opponent were fast enough)
     
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  19. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    I have some sand timers and they are pretty good. Although not knowing how much time is left doesn't quite get you as a physical clock does.

    I think I will look into a clock.

    Without being too stringent about it, I think clocks really help players get better at making and learning from mistakes. Its all too easy to spend 30 minutes nutting out the perfect solution to a problem in a casual game.
     
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