Hey guys, everything is in the title, what are for you the best ARO pieces available in OSS ? And on the contrary, what are the traps to avoid ? I kinda understood that for some people, TR Bots are kind of a "not-so-good" idea, dying fast not doing much due to vulnerability to negative mods and that Mk4 would be good if not overvalued by other proxies. What else ?
Take a gander at this recent thread, it covers the topic pretty well. https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/defense-in-oss.35057/
Indeed, it gives great insights on the question. I'll try to sum them up here, as well as other ideas I gathered reading around. - OSS defense is mostly not found in sacrificial units, aka ARO pieces, but more on clever use of active pieces and positioning - Deva MSV is good against Warband thanks to MSV and Suppressive Fire. Hunt camoed units during active turn, position it cleverly and turn it to SF for ARO. DEVA (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 33) - Dakini Combi/HMG in SF are also good for defense thanks to CH, get them to position with an Ft order and in SF with a Coordinated order. DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) DAKINI Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21) DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 17) DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15) - Those two options interact interestingly, using Deva MSV as team leader for active turn hunting while getting the Dakinis to position and turning all 4 of them to SF for ARO. Note that it will break the link, so reforming it next turn will mean spending another command token, and those things don't come in batches. - Asura is a better Deva on this particular subject but cannot link and might be better used somehow else. It also is ridiculously expensive, some people considering it only barely playable with the bonus order brought by Lt2, and straight unplayable otherwise. ASURA MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 68) ASURA Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 70) ASURA Hacker (Hacking Device Plus UPGRADE: Redrum) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 72) ASURA Hacker (Hacking Device Plus UPGRADE: Redrum) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 76) ASURA (Fireteam: Duo) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 71) ASURA (Fireteam: Haris) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 71) - Arjunas are their own kind of scary cookies for zone defense, with the Arjuna going in SF while the bots bring template (shock with supportware) weapons for close quarter. ARJUNA Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) ARJUNA Spitfire, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 36) KIRANBOT E/Marat, Cybermines / Electric Pulse. (4) - Other decent SF units includes Nagas (Monofilament Mines, FO and KHD are most regarded, see right below), Dasyus (FO), Devas (Sensor, FO and MR), Yadus (Baseline, Haris and NCO), Mk3 and Mk4 HMG, Rudras, Shukra Consultant (tho you might want to keep this one really far from trouble) and to a lesser degree Apsara Jumper Z, Dart and Mk5. Keep in mind that baseline profiles are usually identical but 1 point cheaper than FO ones, which is not good value but can make a list ITS compliant. Also, remember that anything bringing a BS Weapon with B3+ can go into SF, like an Mk1 (which has BS13 so not too shabby). NAGA Combi Rifle, Monofilament Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) NAGA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28) NAGA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) DASYU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 36) DEVA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) DEVA MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) DEVA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) YADU MULTI Rifle, E/Marat, Drop Bears (Throwing Weapon) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 36) YADU (Fireteam: Haris) MULTI Rifle, E/Marat, Drop Bears (Throwing Weapon) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 37) YADU (NCO) HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 41) PROXY Mk.3 Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 21) PROXY Mk.4 HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 25) RUDRA MULTI Rifle, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (0 | 39) RUDRA K1 Marksman Rifle, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (0 | 42) RUDRA Red Fury, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (1 | 40) SHUKRA (Chain of Command) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) APSARA (G: Jumper Level Z) Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) DART Submachine Gun, Viral Tactical Bow, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 34) - Mines are another tool to consider. Nagas have a minelayer profile (but it comes with a BS so no SF). Nagas, Dasyus, Yadus and Rudras all have some kind of deployable weapon in the profiles mentionned above. Dart also has an AP Mine profile but it is outvalued by the EM Grenade one. NAGA (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27) DART Submachine Gun, Viral Tactical Bow, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 34) - Dakini MSR with Ft and Apsara or supportware is a good ARO piece. It will die, so you might want to bring an extra body to reform the link. Note that you can't use the Ft/Apsara solution in conjunction with Dakini SF as it will broke the link, stripping both the Ft's and Apsara's bonuses. DAKINI Tacbot MULTI Sniper Rifle / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 21) - Other MSR like Mk2 and Naga/Dasyus can also do wonders in ARO but they are expensive and will die if used this way. Alternativly, Mk2 can better be used to speedbump and sacrifice itself basically during active turn due to its order being resilient. PROXY Mk.2 MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24) NAGA MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34) DASYU MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 42) - Bounty Hunter SR is also worth mentioning, being somewhat cheap and able to cover some lanes. BOUNTY HUNTER Sniper Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 21) - Interplanetario 2019 winner had one list including Mk4 HRL instead of Mk5 (read, adressed to myself : don't tunnel vision on the Mk1, Mk2, Mk5 trio, they're definetly not as auto-includes as you think). He also included an Mk2 MSR, a Dakini MSR, 3 Dakini Combi and a Deva MSV, for reference. See https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/oss-won-interplanetario.34725/ PROXY Mk.4 Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 20) - Yadus have an HRL profile if you really want to go this route and don't want to use a proxy for it, but it is expensive and less sturdy than Mk4. YADU Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 35) - Samekh FTO is outvalued by MSR Dakini due to mimetism but is still a decent option if you want to save the 4 points. Rebot SAMEKH FTO Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17) - TR Bots are not as much auto-win pieces as the legend says. They can see some use and shine sometimes but will probably just get debuffed hard and die in the trade. However they are decent offense pieces thanks to Climb Plus, and not as expensive as a Rudra. From what I understood, it is better to consider the TR as a nice addition to an offensive piece, which will waste a few orders. ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26) PROBOT (Total Reaction, Repeater) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) - Active support through healing/engineering can go a long way in staying on the board. Sophotect + Yudbots is strong and lets you pick another proxy instead of Mk1. Alternatively, Trisha is a decent engineer that can link, and Mk1 doctor/engi is borderline OP. SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) TRISHA Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10). PROXY Mk.1 Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) - Father Lucien Sforza is worth a note thanks to its glue gun and viral rifle. SFORZA (Holoprojector L2) Viral Rifle + Adhesive Launcher, Nanopulser / Heavy Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 30) - On the stun subject, don't forget the two Lamedh Rebot's Flash Pulse. LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) I think that wraps it up ! Please tell me if I missed something important, I am by no mean an expert.
Sforza has a glue gun, viral rifle and a defensive advantage (disguise as dakinis/devas that arent team lead). Pretty tough too.
I routinely see Dakini MSR, Posthuman Mk2 Sniper, TR bot, and Naga Minelayer. These units are versatile and dangerous. Toss in the obligatory max AVA flash pulses and the occasional Nanopulser, and that's pretty good defense.
But Sforza can’t be in a fireteam. The advantage of surprising someone with a different gun can be good, but usually whoever is shooting a Dakini with a combi rifle will smoke Sforza pretty easily.
That's just one of the options, he also costs the same as a shukra, so you can pretend to be a coc/lt. You can also pretend to be an asura with a hidden dasyu (in group 2 so no order is missing in 1). Or pretend to be an apsaras/danavas. X visor goop is a good ARO by itself to stop rambos.
@Kir Shhh, don't give it on so blatanly. There is no such thing as a Father Lucien Sforza impersonating anyone in our ranks. Father Lucien Sforza is a decent, honest man which wouldn't deceive anyone. I have trust in Father Lucien Sforza, you should have trust in him too. I agree tho, I got my Dart hard shutdown by a gluegun this afternoon trying to E/M an EXP RL HI, and basically no way to get those damn Yudbots to release her. I mean, sure bad play is on me but the weapon definetly is bothersome on its own.
Well, thank you kind sir, but the credit goes to this community as a whole and all the clever things they shared here. I just took notes to help with my thinking process.
About zayin and TR REM in general, i think the reason why they don't seem as good as they should be is that in fact while they are really good at ARO, we ask even more. I mean, on paper BS11 B4 with HMG range and potential MMS L2 is really good and not so many troops can afford fighting it head on - it's really one of the best ARO troop for its cost. But when we put it in sight of most of the board, we expect it to win versus nearly anything the opponent would like to throw at us, including the few counters it has. By the way, i think we forgot one last ARO piece, and a truly fearsome at it when well used: the Marut herself. Of course, she is better in active and better in reactive in vanilla with a few CR myrmidons, but she can be an unpassable wall of death when used in turn 3 to prevent the opponent from scoring some last objectives. Even if she get destroyed, the opponent may have spent too much on her to do anything useful. While i don't play that much, i noticed that many ARO piece are far better in turn 2 or 3. A zayin is far more dangerous when the opponent is starting to be short on orders, can't just move his best killer to deal with it since it is too far, and has to balance between killing and doing objectives. Zayins and Maruts are especially good for that since they are fast and deadly both in active and reactive, meaning that even if they are hidden behind some scenery, the opponent must be careful of not staying exposed - thus these pieces have some influence even when not shooting. They are also very strong when supported by a hidden MK.2 or dasyu sniper.
That's true. And adding to the details: All our Camo-Units are very strong when defending while in suppressive fire. The extra -3 on the enemy's BS and cover are difficult to handle - for the enemy. BUT of course it's no easy trick, because you shouldn't: - be seen from out of 16 inch (prone?, indoors?) - be accessable by chain rifles - or worse - flame throwers (keep your distance to short floors?, set up another guy for covering fire?) - be hackable (no killer or assault hacker-options) or they would attack by that route - avoid units that have MSV - or worse - smoke (in doubt ask your opponent if his units are equipped with this gear, before setting up your "roadblock") If it takes your enemy enough orders to counter one of the above, it might have been worth it. I often take the other half of the table, if smoke or MSV are present. The above mentioned Mk.2 can often seal your blockade. The MSV2 Deva can help too, because the smoke guys often lack range. Well to be honest, I rarely (if ever) improvise such a situation. Still sometimes I have the set-up planned, if I want to deny my opponent an objective or an attack vector. In this case, I have my Dasyu, my covering fire and the order it takes to move into position and the order to activate suppressive fire at hand.
That's why i really like my FO nagas and dasyus - the flash pulse really help when facing long range attacks and resilient troops - of course i may have to drop the suppressive state. When their objectives are complete, they can just turn into a very good speedbump.
