What is the latest point a player can create a Fireteam? http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Creation_of_a_Fireteam "During the Deployment Phase, placing a Team Leader Marker (F: TEAM LEADER), or equivalent, next to one of the troopers that meet the Requirements of this rule." http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Initiative_and_Deployment#Deployment_Rules The Deployment Phase is divided into the following steps: Player One Deployment: Following the order established in the Initiative Roll, as decided by the player who kept Deployment, the first player places all but one of his troops inside his Deployment Zone. Player Two Deployment: Once Player One is done, Player Two places all but one of her troops inside her Deployment Zone. Player One Last Figure: Then, Player One places the troop he kept back during step one. Player Two Last Figure: Finally, Player Two places the troop she kept back during step two. Can Player One create their fireteam in Step 3 when they place their last Figure? (Does that Figure need to be part of that Fireteam?) Can Player One create their fireteam in Step 4 when their opponent place their last Figure?
It is unfortunately very unclear. If it is sufficiently tactically important I suggest you have a good chat with your opponent.
New player but I’ve been staring at the rules a lot, and my guess is that it’s meant to mean that as long as you’re still in the Deployment Phase it’s legal, given that other Special Skill rules (f.ex. Ghost: Jumper, Booty) that are tied to a specific unit and affect the timing during deployment are specific. The fireteam rules don’t require declaration of the fireteam or specifying the fireteam leader when a given unit is placed, just during the Deployment Phase; since it’s based on a Special Skill, presumably you cannot declare the fireteam until at least one fireteam member model with the appropriate Fireteam Special Skill (i.e. Haris, Triad) is on the table. Analogous question: Do you have to place a Prone marker next to a given model at the time you place it on the table, or can you do that later as long as it’s still the Deployment Phase? So far I’ve mostly tried to declare fireteam composition, Prone state, etc. when I place models and definitely before my opponent makes placements, so that they can make placements based on knowledge about who I’ve got Prone, etc. but that seems more like good sportsmanship than a rules requirement under RAW?
I read „During the Deployment Phase, players may deploy one or more of their troopers Prone by placing a Prone Marker beside them.“ as having to place the Prone marker when deploying the trooper that receives the state. In the Spanish version, it‘s much clearer, if I understand correctly: „En la Fase de Despliegue, el jugador puede desplegar una tropa con un Marcador de Cuerpo a Tierra a su lado.“
There was a thread earlier in which it was clarified that phases 3 & 4 aren’t part of the deployment phase. Because of reasons. If they were, AD: Parachutist would become a lot better skill. And yes, by RAW the “one last figure” can’t go prone. But it doesn’t matter, no one cares about RAW anymore.
Would you mind linking to that thread? Because on http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Deployment_Phas, phases 3 & 4 are clearly in the deployment phase.
https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/ad-parachutist-and-last-figure-step.35499/ I have the last post in the thread, so I’m right?
If you are talking about the thread where Parachutist was actually discussed, I believe the result was that if you only had one and you reserved that model, you could choose the entry zone during the reserve phase. If, however, you had multiple troopers with parachutist, or you decided not to hold it back, you had to choose when you would normally deploy them (i.e. during the main deployment phase). Remember that AD is optional for most troopers. You could just deploy that trooper normally and in not doing so, you are using the skill. I take that back until further clarification after rereading the thread.
I'm confused. No one of any authority claimed that steps 3 and 4 of the deployment phase were not actually in the deployment phase.
No, but especially in Spanish, the „Deployment Phase of the owning player“ appear to indeed only pertain to steps 1 and 2 of the Deployment Phase (in http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Initiative_and_Deployment#Deployment_Rules, first FAQ, regarding AD). This is quite confusing and these rules are not well written, since there appears to be an overall deployment phase, with player‘s deployment phases - steps 1 and 2 - included, plus last figures. But at least for the fireteams, the rules seem clearly for the whole overall deployment phase - for AD table edge, as in the FAQ, only during phase 1 or 2.
What do you mean by Steps 1 or 2? Do you mean 1 and 3 (player deploying first) or 2 and 4 (player deploying second)? If so, that's what I'd say too, but it appears from the rest of your statement that you don't think so?
After reading what I wrote last night, I was very unclear. Let me try again: I was quite confused about what @Tanan was trying to say and why they would say that only steps 1 (Player One Deployment) and 2 (Player Two Deployment) of the Deployment Phase were part of the deployment phase. Checking out the link they provided (https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/ad-parachutist-and-last-figure-step.35499/), I noticed that in the FAQ (http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Initiative_and_Deployment#Deployment_Rules#FAQ) it says: "Q: Can you pick your AD: Parachutist location at any time during the Deployment Phase of any player? A: No. You have to choose the location during the Deployment Phase of the owning player." I hadn't heard of "during the Deployment Phase of the owning player" – I assumed that meant "during the owning player's steps of the Deployment Phase", which makes most sense to me. But still, I usually check out the Spanish version to double check – there it says: "Debe elegirse en la Fase de Despliegue propia del Jugador." and steps 1 and 2 are "Despliegue del Jugador 1/2", but steps 3 and 4 are "Última Figura del Jugador 1/2". Not super clear to me. So to me the naming is very confusing ("Deployment Phase of the owning player" in the FAQ vs. "Player One/Two Deployment" as a step), and I can now see how @Tanan is confused. But looking at it with fresh eyes, the word "Phase" is what makes me quite sure "Deployment Phase of the owning player" means steps 1 & 3 or 2 & 4, it's just quite badly written, in English as well as Spanish. So since the rules don't refer to the "Deployment Step of the owning player", but to the "Deployment Phase of the owning player", I now think the rule should be written as "during the owning player's steps of the Deployment Phase". Conclusion for me: create a fireteam whenever during your steps of the Deployment Phase (it's also more streamlined to my eyes and a rules complication less to remember). What do you think?
@Florian Hanke , from your link: So all four steps are part of the deployment phase. The FAQ does not talk about step 3 and 4, but 1 and 3 or 2 and 4, depending on the initiative of the parachutist's player.
That's the conclusion I've arrived, see post above yours. I just think the rules could be written better to avoid confusion such as in this thread: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/ad-parachutist-and-last-figure-step.35499/ (I think they arrive at the wrong conclusion)
A bit of a philosophical and rhetorical question: Can you have a unit "deployed in AD" using Parachutist without also having divided the table into sections and picked one of them?
