Good day another question We were discussing g : remote presence and how it interacts with retreat ... Now my standing was, that G: remote presence gives V:courage, and as I understand V: courage the model stays regular because it says this in the wiki, paragraph above the "Remember" yellow box "Troops with the Special Skill V: Courage (or any that include its effects, such as Martial Arts, G: Remote Presence, G: Mnemonica...), Religious Troop, Veteran or any other Special Skill that protects them from the effects of Retreat! state do not receive a Retreat! Marker (RETREAT!) and ignore all effects of Retreat! state until the end of the game." However it was pointed out to me, that there is a "Retreat Summary Chart" further down the same wiki...and here it lists V: Courage as staying irregular. So, oh wise ones, which is it ? Thanks in advance
Whilst the troopers with Courage don't enter the Retreat state, you are still in Loss of Lieutenant as an effect of your army being in Retreat, which is why they will be Irregular.
ok...but then why that paragraph i quoted? if it ignores the retreat state and all of its effects....isn't retreat putting you in Loss of lieutenant an effect of being in retreat state? and should then be ignored because of Valor?
yes, confusing as hell, because there are "retreat" rule and "retreat" state. With courage, you are inmune to the state, so you dont have to run to the nearest side of the table, but... However, even in a Retreat! situation, troops possessing V: Courage are affected by Loss of Lieutenant. The only way to remain regular in retreat is being Veteran (lv 1 or 2), religious or having Wallace or Joan lieutenants alive
all good, i misread that line to mean, even in retreat (which you ignore) if your lt is dead you would still suffer LoL but fair enough
It is an area which wants improvements in N4, but becoming Irregular due to being in Loss of Lieutenant is an effect of being in Loss of Lieutenant and not part of Retreat!'s effects. Similarly, a model, Wild Bill, with No Wound Incapacitation treats Unconscious like it is a non-null state, this does not protect Wild Bill from Loss of Lieutenant if the lieutenant becomes unconscious because Wild Bill's protection from the null state consequence is too far removed.
fair enough. I think i just read valor wrong, You ignore retreat, but not LoL....but ignore the LoL that retreat gives but NOT the LoL you'd get from you actual Lt dying. all irregular....got it
