What I'm reading in the thread is that people don't like losing expensive units in seemingly low risk matchups to crits. While I agree that it is annoying when it happens at the absolute wrong moment, I'd argue that there are plenty of things in the game that are equally obnoxious and are equally capable of swinging a game 'unfairly,' like when your WIP 14 specialist spends 7 orders trying to figure out how to open a box or push a button. We know that the game is currently balanced (judging by that figure floating around) despite the fact that there are crits. I'm more concerned about potentially breaking the formula that produces that balance. All of these proposed changes would completely revalue units in the game, and therefore the balance between factions.
While a crit style of mechanic MAY be necessary for the game, there are few ways in which it doesnt negatively impact models on the expensive side of the spectrum. If a 40+ point model is as equally screwed as a 20 point model, why dont I take 2 of the 20 point models to insulate myself against the effect, or take something with multiple wounds for the same effect (all kit being similar). Order generation aside this is why do see more spam in the game than people would like.
Which is why the second point is in there. There are very few low ARM/BTS, 1 W/STR 40+pt models in the game. Mostly 40+ pt models are ARM3+ and functionally multi W/STR. Under a crit system that doesn't undermine ARM/BTS these types of troop would be noticeably more crit resistant than a 20pt trooper. Indeed, even now, the most significant advantage of multi wound troops is the ability to take a wound and not lose the position you just spent orders setting up. Its also why I think that fundamentally Shock is a bad mechanic and should go. Shock crits are hands down the worst widely available crits in the game to experience (T2 and Viral are worse, but they're a faction benefit/ have a noticeable cost associated with them so I kinda just accept it), particularly given how cheap Shock is. This is because not only do they result in that attack failing but also immediately remove any option for recovery for 1W troops. An Intruder (one of the few 40+ pt troops that aren't functionally multi wound) has relatively good odds of being able to be Dr'd out of a DA crit (assuming MSR and Dak it's 84.25% before rerolls). That's a massive opportunity cost fighting a Shock weapon imposes on 1W models. It's I think any change to crits also needs to look at Shock.
The biggest problem with it is it's far too ubiquitous in the game especailly thanks to REMs and assisted fire and how they are now handing Shock marksman rifles (which are a mistake), SMGs and red furies out to every other profile. If it were just restricted to Multi weapons and Red furies were less prevalent it'd far less punishing.
If it was just Multi and Heavy Pistols I'd be ok with it staying. They're both relatively rare and expensive. Everything else can either be changed into FAT1 or Nano ammo. Seriously why aren't there Nano guns, it's Nanopulsar then Breaker: Red Furies and SMGs using Nano ammo rather than Shock would be cool. It'd position them as high tech 'needlers' rather than more traditional style guns. It'd also make having BTS as dump stat a real risk, while making BTS as a bloat stat less painful.
Shock basically is Nanotech, what with every second unit released in the last year having Bioimmunity to cheat around that specific problem... You wouldn't even need any special fluff to justify your proposed changes; high-end MULTI Rifles like PanO and ALEPH variants are already stated to fire nanotech ammunition that changes its properties on-demand. Honestly I don't think we'd miss the Shock or Viral insta-kill effects if Dogged and NWI specifically are removed- which I think could be done. Buffing elite NWI units like the Ariadnan HI or the inhuman ALEPH/CA aspects to the full 2-3 W value wouldn't be too awful, and trading Dogged off of the lighter units for a bit more newly-reliable ARM might work too.
I'd rather see shock turn into a weakened version of fire so that you have to make a second save if the first knocks you unconscious.
I like both NWI and Dogged. They're tactically interesting when faced with a limited - but equitably distributed - selection of units that can reliably dispose of them in one go. Even with vastly reduced Shock presence you can almost certainty retain them. Perhaps with a slight price increase. Dogged IIRC is only 1pt.
This is probably a much better suggestion than mine. Separately, I think a straight BTS ammo would be a good option for SMGs and Red Furies.
One of the reasons things can be sour for you. Especially at tournaments. Even though you could do things right, you might loose just because things like this. And there is nothing you can do against it. It only enforces you to not take elite army, depending on the mission, more orders = less chances that RGN will screw you. Don't really see it as fair, if one player spends 1 order on pushing button, while other one needs to spend 5 orders, because he got screwed by dices. Generally things like that don't happen too much, but still...when they happen, they don't leave nice taste in mouth.
if moving or going prone doesn't change the situation, you can choose to move, becau those hyperboles... my plan fails, I lose important troopers after spending orders positioning and trying to kill it, and my turn ends because I spent it and lost (maybe I could do other few things, but the result is the menace remains there and I lost resources in the process)...then my enemy has its turn and I assume he is not worse than me by default, so he will not do absurd things as moving the TAG inside a repeater, he will move some of the cheerleaders and shot the repeater down. Having enough of everything is something not all factions are able to
Gets rid of the problem with Shock Crits @inane.imp summarized, isn't flat out out better for crits against applicable troops than DA, works against NWI, but also keeps Shock Immunity/Bioimmunity relevant to have (for Ariadna/IA pseudo HI). It also would work for Viral. Turn it into Double Trouble + Shock. Easy and elegant exactly what N4 is aiming for. CB should probably see this. No idea if there's a similar thread on the Warcor Forums, but someone might want to cross post.
One of the things we seem to be doing is talking in isolation. Yes arguably the game is balanced with current crit system, but with a new edition at the very least points will be different and profiles may even change. So a new crit system within all the other pieces that can be new could work great or be even more teeth gnashing frustrating. I just really hope if nothing else- cut down these stupid wildcard mixes link team insanity that has caused me to take a pause until n4 and get rid if that bs what were you thinking fatality 2 on anything that can link.
Many people say crits shouldn't auto-wound, but should win F2F. But what about the opposite: crits auto-wound as long as you win F2F?
Why I for one am on favor of at the bare minimum wining the f2f vs the auto wound instagib. I feel like they were supposed to be the great equalizer against peices with brutal BS and heavy modifiers.
Yeah, that's the idea. Perhaps adjusting some models' BS would be in order to address what holycannoli mentioned, but at least on paper this seems like a simple solution that IMHO makes sense thematically. If a crit is an unusually lucky shot and if winning F2F means hitting the other dude first, then the narrative works: you would've scored a lucky hit, but unfortunately you were too dead to squeeze the trigger in time.
