Hi folks, a conversation came up where myself and another were discussing the relative morality of the various factions. One that we both agreed were generally good guys was Haqqislam. However, I did note that they at least tactfully overlook some very morally dark stuff, including slavery. Now, Odaliques aside, which I'd tend to think does indicate at least some level of slavery (not the Odaliques possibly, but it indicates sex slave harems), but by using the Druze who engage in the whole swath of organised crime criminal activity, yet can be hired as regular troops in the QK, they have to be at least ignoring human trafficking. Just curious, do you folks think I'm a madman, or is this effectively one of the darker spots on Haqqislam's morality?
Slavery, a whole sect of assassins, viral weaponry, organized piracy, blackmail, welcoming wanted criminals, kidnapping/brainwashing and orphaned children raised to be soldiers. Yeah, they have some issues.
I would agree. I think I read that a portion of Azra’il were purchased as child slaves... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You could say that since Haqqislam only controls ONE planet, Bourak; they have to work with what they have available to counter much more massive Foreing Powers. The Hyperpower and the State-Empire rarely need to look for outside sources to muscle their way into any type of business of their Interest. Like the Nomads and Ariadna, Haqqislam is a small Nation and works with whoever they can trust to help without compromising their operations to the 2 greatest powers of the Human Sphere. In Haqqislam there is more freedom in terms of relationships, and Poligamy is not frowned upon, and is socially acceptable for both men and women to have more than 1 spouse. In that sense, the Odalsiques are trained to be bodyguards; and in a more sexually open culture, are taught to use their bodies as well as their brains to achieve their goals. Haqqislam is the Humanist faction. Their main drive is the pursuit of knowledge and the betterment of Humanity. Like a friend of mine told me, the Hassassins are actively working to create a "world" where they are no longer necesary and not a part of. So yes, Haqq has its quirks, but compared to the Hyperpower, the State-Empire, and the Nomads, we look like Pacifists. Pacifists with Light Shotguns attached to every Rifle.
Here is how I view the entirety of Infinity's factions for the most part: Various shades of grey. In Haqqislam's case, it is the aforemention implication of human trafficking/slavery, biological weaponry, supporting piracy for their own benefit. And other things people have mentioned.
Okay, I'm a newcomer to the game and I'm not expert regarding the fluff, but let me join in... Hmmm. I admit I don't have a big problem with the Hassassins - they aren't much worse than any secret service other factions might have (although there is that bit they are actually not controlled by the Haqq government and operate on their own). Viral weaponry is just cool tech to me. Organized piracy... you mean, they employ the Bazouks and the Yuan Yuans? Both of these groups are shady, but I suppose that other factons use similar groups... I think I missed the bits about brainwashing, slavery and orphans raised to be soldiers... Could I ask for some info on that? Also, are the Druze really that bad? :( *throws all his DBS miniatures in the trash* Yeah, I never got the vibe that the Odalisques were supposed to be guards of sex-slave harems. They are the bodyguards and they protect legit spouses. My opinion on the factions is this: 1. The good guys: Haqqislam, Ariadna and the Nomads. 2. Quite probably well-intentioned guys with possibly underhanded tactics: ALEPH 3. Unpleasant oppressive states: Pan-O and Yu Jing 4. Evil incarnate: the Combined Army (no opinion on Tohaa yet) Anyway, I do agree that Haqqislam has its controversial sides, but that's what I like in Infinity: all factions have good sides and bad sides. For example, the Nomads are inspirationally freedom-loving, but they do have their quirks, too. Their Wildcats troops were created by giving employment to war criminals - also, there's quite probably lots of bizarre and morally dubious stuff going on Bakunin...
Each faction even the seemingly "good" ones have undertones in their societies of badness. I don't know where the slavery thing is coming from. There is indoctrination of the youth but when they age out they are technically free to go about their business, they just usually follow their indoctrinators requests (Janissaries). The odalisques are DEFINITELY not sex slaves. They are hardcore trained, and expensive bodyguards. Harems do exist in both the male and female sense and are not entirely looked down on by society, but it is noted that the average public usually has a "Ehhhh....I mean I guess its okay..." attitude than outright supporting it. Also if you read the Tohaa background, those guys are super duper evil. Like on par with Combined Army, just much more covert about it.
Ah, I'd forgotten this, but it was pointed out to me on discord, from the Janissary profile, "The Delivered are children of infidels captured by slave traders in their razzias. What slavers cannot sell in the private market, they sell to Haqqislam, who takes them in to save their lives and raise them into courageous warriors of the Faith." So, Haqqislam does allow/benefit from an open slave trade.
@theGricks I’m pretty sure this is the slavery I was referring to. Just couldn’t remember if it was the Janissary or Azra’il. They do release the children from the bonds of slavery, however. This just reinforces the fact that Haqqislam is the greatest of all powers.
How can we even be discussing this?... We ARE THE GOOD GUYS. We are the humanists, we search for knowledge to make the world a better place. We have best medical care. Sure, in the path to ideal world we need sometimes to make a surgical cut with some Hassassins. Or a slightly bigger operation to heal some part of the sick world with some different, maybe more aggressive tool (Druzes for example), but sometimes it's just a matter of choice. So called smaller evil (there's a saying in Polish, that means, that sometimes there's no good option, just the ones that are less bad ;) ) . So don't think too much, just make the world better with your shotguns, viral CCW et cetera! :P PozdRawiam / Greetings
Also, from what I gather, the Haqq harems are simply groups of spouses / concubines, not sex slaves kept there against their will. So, I personally don't see the existence of harems as something that paints Haqq in the bad light... The Janissaries are one thing I'd consider morally dubious about Haqqislam... But it's just one thing. As @KedzioR_vo said, they are the good guys overall :)
Yeah it's worth remembering, Haqqislam does not have legal slavery. Haqqislam buys slaves from off world interstellar slave traders, gives them freedom, a home, education and a future, and for those who want it, a job in the Janissary corps. Is that this good? Well you'd prefer that they just tried to eliminate slavery, but perhaps they actually do try to when they can, it's just they're a small power and can only do such much.
Well, in my opinion, the chief difference between the Hassassin and any other intelligence / special operations organization of the Human Sphere (the Black Hand, the Hexaedron, the what-is-their-name Yu Jing Intelligence) is their ideology of operation. If any of the other agencies finds that you're a threat to the reason of their respective state, they will make you just as dead as the Hassassins would. But they'll pretend they had absolutely nothing to do with them. See, it was just "an accident", or you were killed by "parties unknown", or "it was some criminal activity", and any involvement of the black Hand / Hexaedron / Yu Jing Intel will be vigorously denied. Bah, to the wide public, the very existence of those agencies is going to be denied - contrary to the Hassassins. Ninjas? The Yu Jing offical communicate is that there are no ninjas, just some old Japanese legends good for the enterntainemnt industry. Y'know, the movie stuff with guys in black pajamas. No-one, starting with the Hachib's Presidential Office, denies the existence of the Hassassins. You propose a threat to the Search of Knowledge, and a Fiday is going to knife you in broad daylight, leaving a Hassassin-inscribed dagger in your heart. They are going to make it a statement. Not "you cross the wrong guys, something bad could happen to you, your spouse, your kids and your goldfish, you know. By no means we're threatening you, oh no, absolutely, we're a peace-loving nation". No. It will be "you stand on Haqqislam's toe, the Hassassin will come and cut your throat. No matter how many bodyguards you'd get and where you'd hide, and who will be watching. We're going to find you and we're going to kill you, is that clear?" In a way, I find it to be a refreshingly honest approach...
Actually is more "mess with something that the hassassins don't like and expect a fiday at your door". Don't forget that Haqqislam goverment don't control the Bahram.
The Haqqislam government puts forward a "Good faith effort" for O-12 but yea, High Command has NO control over the Old Man on the Mountain. Also do know that Hassassin Bahram took care of a threat to the WHOLE human sphere when the Govads essentially took on the "illuminati". Also do note that the Druze are not technically part of the Haqqislam Nation. They originate from it and recruit from it but they are an entity all their own.
Yea a certain group of Druze were committing genocide on the ariadnas, they are not the most pleasant people
