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Is it worth not running a full Core in sectorials?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by LoganGarnett, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. LoganGarnett

    LoganGarnett Well-Known Member

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    I've been thinking to myself. Can I run a competitive Sectorial list without a full Core, especially in Ramah with its high diversity? Can I run two Haris groups? Can that work competitively? Wouldn't I be even more screwed by dice rolls?

    I know that "it's you, not your list" saying, but do you think it's worth giving up that sweet SS2 and +3 MOD to have more mobility and diversity in lists, while going against opponents that utilize those benefits (and, perhaps, already have better stats/rules on top of those benefits)?

    Am I high or smth?
     
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  2. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

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    Trust me, your list definitely plays very big role ;)

    Especially considering that you have very meh profiles, and very efficient ones.
     
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  3. Jonas Lasershark

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    If You could have a second real Haris I would think about it. But imho in Ramah shortening you core isnt worth it.
    Shasvastii for example is a sectorial that can perfectly work without a core link.
     
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  4. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    Its very dependant on the sectoral. Here are the ones play

    HB: Virtually always
    QK: Virtually always, but has a couple other options
    Shasvastii: Almost never. Haris options are good. The only time I tried it was to test a 5 man Sheshkin list
    Ikari: Haris & Small Core are good, The wu-ming are a nice change but a bit vanilla.
    Druze: Always, they specialize in keeping a 5 man core going after loses.
    IA: The Zuyong core is the main reason to play them. its actually a weakness in the faction that they are a one trick pony.
     
  5. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    You lose a lot when you decide to play a sectorial, and you need to make up for that loss by gaining something.

    You need to ask yourself “What do I gain by playing that sectorial?”

    In some of the sectorial, you get a wildly different AVA over vanilla, and that might be good enough for your to switch over to the sectorial.

    For example, Sha has +2AVA on noct, +1AVA on Speculo, +2AVA on Shrouded. If you make a list that milk thise benefit, you’re giving yourself a good reason to play the sectorial over vanilla.

    Some sectorial however, have very little relevant AVA increases, I’m thinking about like OSS that gets already gets 2 Naga and 2 Dasyu in vanilla and actually lose a netrod in OSS. In that faction, the main reason to play it is your access to the fireteam.

    Some sectorial also has different sectorial only profiles or cost reduction (again, Sha has a 0.5 swv reduction on their Shrouded). OSS gets a special Andromeda profile :face_with_rolling_eyes:. You need to take in account if those special things are worth it for you.

    As for the actual fireteams, you need to gauge how much bonus from it you think is worth to make the jump from vanilla to Sectorial. In the case of Shasvastii, the increase in AVA and the SWC discounts are already good enough that I’d make the jump, the fireteam is just icing and I actually think the 5 man is very mediocre, so i stick with just giving +1 burst to Sheskiin. (6.5%~ crit rate increase)

    For Ramah, I’d ask myself these questions.
    What do I gain from a fireteam?
    What else do you gain over vanilla?
    Is the fireteam the only benefit?

    Make a no-fireteam Ramah list, then go in vanilla Haqq army builder, if you can remake your same list, then you could probably make a much better vanilla list.
     
  6. Sedral

    Sedral Jīnshān Task Force Officier

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    It'll really depends on what sectorial you're playing, but what factions you're expecting to play against, the kind of board (dense/open), and the mission could have an impact on your decision as well.
    The main use of the 5-man team is to get those sweet bonuses that allow you to brute force your way through AROs and/or set-up your own ARO game, so the question really is: do you feel like you need those bonuses, either offensively or defensively?

    I'm no Ramah expert, but the sectorial doesn't strike me as one that overly relies on 5-man bonuses to get things done. On the other hand it's really easy to just have 2 ghulam/naffatun jerking around that you can throw together with, say, your 3 kawarijs if you really need those bonuses, like if you want to buff them-up in case your opponent might try to go for an alpha strike or you suddenly have to fire your spitfire at stupid range and need the +3 to not end-up at BS1.
     
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  7. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    The issue with Ramah is that most of their decent gunfighters are 30+ points and relatively soft, and they don't have cheap skirmisher options. You also don't have WB for DZ defense and midfield control. This pushes you toward a Ghulam / Naffatun core in order to get the orders to power a decent Haris (Tarik + Mukhtar is most common) and provide them a modicum of protection - it's not like you're finding cheap orders elsewhere, with the exception of flash pulse bots.

    In general, Ramah lists tend to max out at around 13 or 14 regular orders unless you're specifically rolling a bunch of cheap dudes.

    You could potentially run a relatively small core of something hard (Jannissaries for example), plus a Haris, but now you're pushing 200 points for 6 models...it's looking more like Limited Insertion at that point.
     
  8. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Bakunin isn't badly placed to do this. You can make use of the the extra AVA of a couple of things (Zeroes principally) and run some quite powerful Harris' (Kusanagi, Grrls or 3 Moira Cores).

    Mostly this works because you don't give up much by losing the Moderator core.

    Admittedly by deciding to do this you give up the Grrls core but it does add variety.
     
  9. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I regular wish I could take multiple Haris Teams in Foreign Company
     
  10. Mcgreag

    Mcgreag Well-Known Member

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    For JSA I think you could do fine without one, it's just that you probably want those Kaisotsu as cheerleaders anyway so you might as well make a full core of them considering how cheap they are. But it's not like you expect to do much with them.
     
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  11. Koval

    Koval Well-Known Member

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    This is where I end up whenever I try to do two teamw of 3 with Ramah, too. I'd be perfectly happy with a haris of mukhtar and a core of ghulam and/or khawarij. But I then I put some more orders in the list, and those cheap models can join the core team.

    One option I've considered is a core team of a khawarij gunfighter, the ghulam NCO, a doctor, and two ghulam snipers. The idea with this one would be for the team to only have five members on turn 1 if my opponent goes first, then move up without the snipers. In practice, I generally end up with 7-8 models that can join the core, so i just move up with 5 that aren't snipers.
     
  12. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
    Warcor

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    Lately I've been far less inclined to run full core links, outside of cheap defensive links. I find spending less points on link bonuses gives me tools I can use elsewhere more effectively.

    Even in Ramah, you can do a lot with a 3-man Khwarij core, backed up by plenty of super soldiers and other utility pieces. Yes, 5-man cores give big bonuses, but they have to in order to compensate for how unoptimized they are. Obviously, the less you invest in them, the more you have to spend elsewhere. When I play sectorials these days I am more interested in a powerful 3-man fireteam, as well as Duos. @WiseKensai lately has been all about his duo fireteams.
     
    #12 TheDiceAbide, Dec 26, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
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  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Really depends on what sectorial you're playing.

    I want to play the Zuyong Core Beatstick in IA, but that's really handicapping my ability to do missions.

    The full DoTanko Core in JSA is great for killing things, but again hurts my ability to do missions. And it's tough fielding both a full Core and a Karakuri Haris.
     
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