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Theorizing the Gamma Unit

Discussion in 'O-12' started by Bruno Braga, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. Bruno Braga

    Bruno Braga Well-Known Member

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    upload_2019-12-5_8-4-45.png

    So with recent discussions coming up regarding our dearest Gamma, I thought that a thread to discuss it would be a good idea. (Hopefully I'm not wrong.)

    In the past few months I've gotten a lot of practice done with the Gamma. Both using the HMG and the Feuerbach options and there's a few things I've learned regarding both profiles.

    • HMG
      A solid Burst 5 weapon on not only a BS14 body, but a heavily armored glorified light TAG. On average, most of your dice will be hitting on 14s with this option (+3 for range and -3 for cover), not including the less common scenarios of models with Mimetism/ODD/Full Auto L2/LVZ. With 5 dice, you come very close to guaranteeing a kill.
      This profile does have a harder time of dealing with heavily armored models (in cover or out of it) as well as multi wound models. This is where I've found more success with the Feuerbach profile.
      I've found great success using it versus armies such as Haqq and Ariadna. Any army fielding a majority of LI or single wound models will fear the HMG Gamma.

    • Feuerbach
      This profile is actually my personal favorite of the two. While B3 AP+DA is a lot less dice then a B5 HMG, the higher ceiling of a potential 6 ARM saves really sells me on this.
      Having a crazy good range band with no negatives all the way up to 48 inches is insanely usefull. On top of this, the Feuerbach option also offers a much better ARO game than the HMG.
      This flavor of Gamma has the capability of dealing with not only HI but also most TAGs without breaking a sweat, so what's not to love!

    With all of the testing I've done with both options, I now tend to settle on the Feuerbach option and it's the one I'll be fielding in my upcoming 400 point tournament.

    However, with all this said, I haven't fielding the Gamma as my Lieutenant. This is mostly due to the Alpha being such an attractive Lieutenant piece, and thanks to Strategos L2, it's similar to having the extra Lt Order for the Gamma anyways.
     
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  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    While the Feuerbach does have strong damage capabilities and against most opponents will be the stronger option spread across many, many, games, I do have to note that law of averages means the HMG will in general win more direct engagements so any engagement where the Gamma is slightly favoured, the HMG Gamma will most often eek out a win even if the Feuerbach will deal more wounds over thousands of games - although most of those wounds will be overkill considering how often you'll be shooting 1-wound troops.

    Also to keep in mind is that what the Feuerbach doesn't do well is engage well against troops that have burst increasing states or skills in ARO.

    I'm a bit ambivalent on what I prefer. I've had some pretty poor showings with Feuerbach (and historically I really need law of averages on my side to win rolls, low burst attacks usually don't go well for me) but I've also had a Feuerbach Gamma punish me hard.
     
  3. Bruno Braga

    Bruno Braga Well-Known Member

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    Well I do agree. As the old saying goes, Burst is king.

    Yeah the two extra dice are gonna average out the dice. Just a lot harder to deal with the HI and TAG threats with the HMG I've found. Even against smaller troops I've had an alright time with just 3 dice instead of 5. I think the Feuerbach and HMG both can equally make dust out of any smaller troopers.

    Yeah against Full Auto L2 the ARO is a lot harder but it's rare to see that in my meta. There's the odd Kriza and Sogarat here and there but not too much that the rest of the army wouldn't be able to handle (Look at you, Team Sirius).
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Kriza still only has B1 in ARO, thankfully, I was referring to how the Feuerbach has a poor chance against Total Reaction, Neurocinetics and Suppression Fire where B3 is no longer sufficient to over-power your opponent and where you risk rolling effective BS 14 versus effective BS 14 where you're at burst disadvantage in the active turn.
    Gamma FB tends to rely a lot on your opponent having equal or worse BS and having a burst of 1 in ARO or a burst of 2 without MODs sufficient to overpower the Gamma's BS too much in order to do work. There's an increasing number of profiles that'll challenge this old "truth" now-a-days.

    However, it only takes one moderately lucky roll with the Gamma FB to completely turn a game around.
     
  5. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

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    Don't forget that a Feuerbach has a VERY STRONG ARO granted by its ammo
     
  6. Bruno Braga

    Bruno Braga Well-Known Member

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    I actually haven't come up against a TR Bot with the Gamma. If they get to put supportware on it then yeah it'll be harder to deal with and that's where the HMG will have an easier time of dealing with it.

    But with O12 being quite good at hacking and having good sources for smoke, I feel like we have better ways of dealing with them than the Gamma. Epsilon + Smoke or AHD Team Sirius might be better options of dealing with them.
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I like having a plan B. Epsilon is a very high-value target for your opponent, and if they succeed in getting a good active burst on it, you'll need something to deal with a Q-Drone or Kamau or Sin-Eater (although no one seems to be playing with these anymore). For me, at least, AHD Sirius tends to be the first thing to die and the size of Siriusbots tend to mean they are second to go (and I've never been able to get one of them to survive getting further across the board than 30").
    In general I'm not a fan of presenting AROs to my opponent, particularly not long-range AROs. As much as a Gamma FB ARO can turn a game, the chance of them doing so in the 2-3 orders it takes to overwhelm or out-flank it is fairly low. I think the threat of maybe forcing an ARO with the FB is more potent than actually AROing with it.
     
  8. Bruno Braga

    Bruno Braga Well-Known Member

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    So I've used the Gangbuster and TeamSirius alongside a HD+ Cyberghost to pretty good effect against MSV or linked MSV models. The White Noise + Fireteam/Synced troops to force them into a bad ARO.

    I agree, I don't like leaving units out to ARO. Especially when I mostly play LI lists, every order counts then. But the Gamma can at least pose a really big threat in ARO unlike other models (especially moreso than the HMG version). The threat is usually enough to get people to avoid it rather than dealing with it head on.
     
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  9. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    His LT. options become a lot more attractive thanks to Ms. Cho.

    He's not the faction's best gunfighter. far from it. But, he's a fun pick with some pretty decent use in missions like Decapitation.
    I'm in the camp that HMG is still the way to go – regardless of EXP ammo on the Feuerbach, putting your Gamma in suppressive is going to be a better choice.

    He's a tough unit to chew through so volume of B combined with the negative modifier are going to make him more of a nuisance to remove.
     
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  10. realder

    realder Member

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    The only time I've fielded a Gamma, it was the FB one. I planned on using him as an order sponge but ended up using him as a troubleshooter (Mathamori's Epsilon was trouble, and the Gamma shot him) and spent way more orders than I wanted to on him.

    In hindsight, I believe the HMG one would have been better for my original plan. I could have parked him in suppressive somewhere nice and cozy. The mission was Frontline, so he'd have had to be dealt with.
     
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  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    And the Peeler. Don't forget the Peeler. And I think you also killed a Varangian in ARO, which was important but not a great feat. But in the end he was the solid block of points you needed to hold middle, though the Lynx with Plasma was the real MVP.
     
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  12. MrNailbrain

    MrNailbrain Relentless Optimist

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    The rangebands of the Feuerbach are also a selling point. 0 range past 32 is very helpful in dealing with TR HMGs and HRLs. And even with the lower burst, even sneaking one hit in will probably do more damage than 2-3 successful HMG hits, when you factor in ammo types.

    I’ve had good success with the FB Gamma as a flank anchor and for punching out ARO pieces that I don’t want to risk the Omega on. Omega actually has awful odds against most linked MLs unless you can underrange them at 16-24”.
     
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  13. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Reaktion is cheaper, can be recovered from the unconscious state unlike the SE who thanks to the amount of shock in the game now gets dropped super easy and is permanently dead, the Reaktion can get hacker buffs. also if you can deal with a TR bot easily you can do the same to a SE. So you're normally better off just paying for more mines, hackers/repeaters or crazy koalas.

    Probably one of it's stronger ones, very few people factor in an active turn shooter not firing in their +3 band so you can catch some people out when you a super long range shot at them.
     
  14. Kiwi Steve

    Kiwi Steve Well-Known Member

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    I've had some pretty good success with my Feuerbach Gamma, but primarily use it for it's ability to shut down a patch of the board in the reactive turn.

    The big positives for me have been:
    1. High BS gives it a reasonable chance of hitting (or reducing the number of shots that hit it)
    2. High ARM (particularly in cover) means that if it takes a hit or two, they're unlikely to wound it.
    3. High Wounds (effectively 3 with NWI) means that even if it takes a wound its unlikely to go down in one burst, and it can always fail a guts roll to prone when it does
    4. High damage weapon means that if it wins the face to face, it is likely to remove whatever was shooting at it - you can choose AP+DA or EXP as appropriate based on what the shooter is.
    These abilities synergise really well to give an anvil which shuts down a part of the board - opponents are reluctant to take it on with most of their attack pieces as its likely to soak up a lot of their orders and if it ones a single F2F their strong attacking model dies.
     
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  15. Jumara

    Jumara Well-Known Member

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    Use it like a sniper but with more Burst. Almost nothing wants to shoot back at range over 40 even if you have no cover. 3 shots at 11(enemy cover) vs some ARO on say 13-3(range/-3cover) dosn't sound good for your enemy.
     
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  16. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    The problem with the HMG Omega is that it is a active turn piece and... well.... Omega does it better.

    The feuerbach gives you the option to go into the +0 range against -3 range of HMGs, is a much better ARO piece and can crack anything in the game. So it has options on how to play. If you need a active turn killer that is better at winning FtF grab a Omega. The feuerbach Gamma also wins FtF (albeit less reliably ), but adds plenty of other avenues of play.

    That said, I find that it would be a very hard sell to grab it instead of the more specialized Omega.
     
  17. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    The Omega does it less better against non-MSV Shoot AROs than you might statistically think because of the +1 B but yes, it is better.

    Although, often enough you find that people aren't shooting back, they're dodging or whatever. In those situations, a Gamma is superior.
     
  18. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    I like the idea behind the Gamma, mostly because I have a soft spot for big HI toting big guns with big ARM stats.
    It's currently one of the most durable HI units out there, comparable in durability to Yu Jings Mowang & Su-Jian and tying the Sogarat for highest non-TAG ARM stat... Which is an over costed stat last time I peeked inside the salt mines, but it's nice for those situations when you must simply say ''Screw you and your disposable Chain weapons, Mines and other cheap AROs that I simply cannot be bothered to screw with.''

    Not that fond of how the Feuerbach profile looks TBH, I feel it falls maybe a bit too short in the end to really carve out a niche for itself. It would be hard-pressed to choose it over the HMG myself.

    So, in short... it is a sledgehammer. This is a pretty great thing IMO, since in my experience, sometimes the most Order efficient and simplest solutions to your problems are excessive violence and bullets.

    Yeah, I think this list would be better off having the Feuerbach replaced with an Omega HMG, would save some points to turn the Flashbot into something a bit more useful than a Flash Pulse ARO that generates a nice little order.

    Still, as far as ''high-end'' HI beat sticks go, I'd say it's quite nice. Simple and absolutely void of subtlety.
    The fact O-12 has the support to back up a HI heavy playstyle does go a long way in making the Gamma slot in nicer too.

    O-12
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    GAMMA HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 57)
    GAMMA Feuerbach / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 58)
    ALPHA Lieutenant (Strategos L2) 2 Light Shotguns, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 26)
    KYTTÄ Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    BETATROOPER Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Submachine Gun, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    BETATROOPER Doctor (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37)
    OKO Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    OKO Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    GANGBUSTER Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Submachine Gun, MadTrap / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    SIRIUS (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges + 1 SiriusBot / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] SIRIUSBOT Heavy Riotstopper / Electric Pulse. (0 | 5)

    3.5 SWC | 297 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  19. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    i had a few games today as 0-12 with 2 gammas. the two feuerbachs really controlled the map on both sides of the turns when the order count is roughly the same.
     
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