1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The lonely Shang Ji

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    Kind of agree with you, but even just looking internally there's a few issues I can see where you risk just making a bad Hsien, bad Crane or expensive short-range Zuyong (the latter is the current incarnation).

    I don't see how a Feuerbach is anything but a nerf compared to a Heavy Rocket Launcher they already have, but Heavy Flamethrowers aren't unreasonable and there's no Mimetic/ODD/FA2 Coreable HI in Yu Jing yet. Parrots and Pandas are Pan-O/Nomad tech, though so are Feuerbach, but I'm a bit worried what IA can do to the hacking sub-game if they get decent Repeaters. I do see a small gimmick on the e-war topic that could be Yu Jing in having "wildcard" Martial Arts hackers that a single level of MA would do for Shang-Ji - though ideally they should also have their CCW upgraded to DA in that case so they can actually harm an AC2.
     
  2. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,931
    Likes Received:
    5,079
    I agree on Equipment.
    For me:
    Change all Combi+LFT to Breaker or AP Combi+LFT.
    Add Heavy Flamethrower.
    Add Boarding shotgun.
    Change all or many Shock CCW to DA CCW.
    Add KHD.

    Done. I would take those. Changing to Breaker or AP is not a huge thing but can be great against big things.

    I've always thought of them since they first came out that they were close in Assault type HI. Close ranged type things. Giving them BSG, Heavy FT, and DA CCW would help to do that.
     
  3. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2018
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    455
    I'll admit my examples were rushed and may not have been the most appropriate. The main point I was trying to make is that Shang ji could be viable without stat changes by giving them gear that we don't already have in a comparable format elsewhere. Make them the, for lack of a better example, Zhanying of HI. Nothing you'd want a lot of or that you'd even necessarily use every game, but with just enough "toolbox" that they're a good option for particular missions or match ups.
     
  4. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,279
    Likes Received:
    1,936
    I have enough of a hard on for the Zhanying that I am more than down with that concept. If they can turn the Shang Ji into a trooper half as cool, I'm totally on board.
     
  5. Shinen

    Shinen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    105
    I think, to give the Shang Ji more close range weapons would make the breaker pistols on zuyongs obsolete but i would like to see them in this combat roll regardless.
    Grenades and heavy Pistols have already been mentioned a couple of times in several simliar topics but if im allowed to dream regardless of Gamebalance i would also prefer a new kind of weapon: (Danger! Bad humor):
    Uprising Stopper, BSG stats with large teardrop impact template and shock ammo but without AP/slug mode.

    Or a Rapidfire (light) Shotgun with B3
     
  6. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,741
    Likes Received:
    1,844
    Make em door-kickers for me. Martial arts at a good level, decent cc stat and weapon, heavy shotguns, d-charges and DTWs.
    Good point man for a team that way
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    What part of the Zhanying do you like? For me it's Sensor above all else. Most other aspects of the Zhanying I think is sufficiently emulated by virtue of being HI - shock immunity, high ARM and BTS.

    Why not Vulkan Shotguns? Those are described as the urban environment version of the Boarding Shotgun and you could theme Shang-Ji heavily on fire ammo.

    So... Crane Agent?

    Btw, don't need D-Charges if you've got a DA/EXP/T2 CCW and decent PH and MA. Say if a Shang-Ji got MA2, DA CCW and CC of 20-21 (estimated +5 points), that's almost a break even for harming an AC2 compared to D-charges.
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  8. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,279
    Likes Received:
    1,936
    Sensor definitely takes a high spot on that list, plays with triangulated fire have won me games. But I'd also say that Sixth Sense L2 plays a big part. It's not a huge deal when you're running a full core, but for haris links and independent operators, it's really nice to have. Mad traps are also amazing when you can fit them in. Breaker combis and nimbus grenades are all fairly niche equipment, but even they can be used to punish opponents in ways they don't usually expect.

    In general, I just tend to have a thing for toolboxes with unconventional options.
     
    #148 Weathercock, Nov 15, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
    ambisinister, Tibooper and Mahtamori like this.
  9. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,931
    Likes Received:
    5,079
    I'd like to see at least Marital Arts L1. I want the Stealth more than anything. It pisses me off to no end that PanO has more HI with martial arts than Yu Jing. But pisses me off more than they have HI Hackers with Stealth.
     
  10. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,023
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    To keep the shang ji thematic it shouldn't really have anything that the more advanced amours based of it don't. For this reason the stat line probably shouldn't change much. I'd like them to have veteran, but really how many units in Infinity should have a rule called veteran? Probably be better if the rule didn't exist.

    Maybe also spice them up with some very Yu Jing feeling toys, like an SMG + madtraps profile. A combi + LGL profile would be good too and make an excellent wildcard in IA.
     
  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,148
    Likes Received:
    9,666
    Yes, that's what they were in N2. Faster, and had effectively ODD against hacking attacks.


    So, a Crane?


    I still think we should go with the Shangawira: Asawira statline, with a few tweaks for YJ gear instead of Haqq.
    4-4MOV, CC21, BS14, PH14, WIP14, ARM3, BTS9, 2W, S2.
    MA2 and Kinematika L2, probably Veteran L1 (and Veteran troop classification), and for grins let's add Deflector L2 to all profiles. Hack *this*, Nomad scum!

    Combi+LFT would cost about 37pts, maybe a bit less. Multirifle would be the same cost as a current Asawira.
     
    Henshini likes this.
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    Honest answer here? Very, very, common. Veteran soldiers should be fairly common in any setting, and this setting has cubes which should make it even more common. Basically, just bake it into classification; characters, veterans, elites and HQ should just be immune to Isolation (but their equipment should not)

    Although soldiers tend to get broken down with veterancy, but let's not get too realistic here, eh? :)
     
    the huanglong likes this.
  13. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,023
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    I think a lot of the fluff tends to forget about resurrection when talking about danger.
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  14. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,741
    Likes Received:
    1,844
    Some ITS missions force you to CC with d-charges though. Whilst that's a thing, yes, I'll have the d-charges thanks.
    And yeah I'd like a good crane, there's no cranes in invincibles and that skillset would be welcome
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,018
    Likes Received:
    15,302
    You aren't forced to CC with D-Charges in any mission, if you have a DA/EXP/T2 weapon (or K1, but... I mean... K1 pfff...). Well, except for the classified that even a CC 0 Engineer can complete. D-charges isn't exactly uncommon in IA, but reliably means of damaging AC2s and Armouries are.

    Seems like the sweet spot for destroying AC2s and Armouries is EXP CCW, around CC 22, MA2, and PH14, which is where they break even with D-charges. Now, D-Charges are most often free, EXP is costlier than DA CCW, which is a very real argument.
     
  16. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,931
    Likes Received:
    5,079
    Sorry for the bit of threadomancy. You know... I hate comparing troops to other armies...but man! I was just looking at MO just for the hell of it and i came across this guy that was changed. Knights of Santiago. WTF? For 1 efing point more than a standard Shang Ji he gets better CC, BS, 360 Visor, Religious, Zero-G, Marital Arts (and all that comes with it), D-Charges, Tin bot A, DA CCW (much better than shock), and he's a Killer Hacker!! The only things that he has lesser are BTS -3, PH -1, and Nanopulsar instead of LFT (which I think is a side move). OMG they had better make the Shang Ji at least as good as that. Then look at the Spitfire!! Trade out Tinbot for E/M grenades but only 1 SWC!!!
     
  17. Zoccola

    Zoccola Angry Maple Syrup Powered Italian
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2018
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    133
    The Santiagos benefit from the Berserk tax break. :) (Honestly the silliest rule in the game.) Easily negated by linking them.

    I think the ShangJi are almost good. They just need a little tweak and they would be awesome. My idea:

    Mechanized Deployment.

    Imagine deploying a harris of ShangJi on the center line of the table.

    Or keeping a ShangJi with Spitfire as your reserve and then dropping him down where he will ambush 3 units on the first turn. Kind of like what you can do with a Peacemaker. Only with 2 wounds and 4 armour. That would be something unique that no heavy infantry has (the only footslogging Montessa's had it).

    I would be down for that.
     
    Mahtamori likes this.
  18. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    2,290
    I wonder if this wouldn't infringe too much on the territory of the Daofei. Marker state would still be an advantage for the Daofei, but a Shang Ji Haris in the same position would be so much more flexible and strong offensively. Granted, it's also a bigger investment, so I can't say I hate the idea.
     
  19. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,931
    Likes Received:
    5,079
    I guess just need to wait for N4. But yay the frenzy the frenzy being negated by a being in a link makes it even worse. Hell, frenzy itself is not all that bad! Sure you loose cover but then you gain an order!
     
  20. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    With the addition of Forward Deployment introduced in N3 I think Mechanized Deployment is going to be trash canned in N4.

    But yes, the Frenzy/Impetuous discount is very real and is easily circumvented by link teams. Something else I hope they address in N4.
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation